[VeXun]

I own both these iems and I remember before getting the er4s the gr07 had the most natural sounding bass, now they sound way bass heavy it's almost too much for me. I even let them burn in a little bit in my brain to get used to the sound signature. Is the etymotic bass more natural with how it sounds but not its tactile feel and thump? I've always been curious about this. Thanks

 

[markanini]

Do you have any opportunities to listen to some live music in your area? Or ask a recording studio engineer if he wouldn't mind you hang around and listen while they work in the control room. These are the best ways to get familiar with what natural bass sounds like and then you will be able to make you own judgement.

 

[VeXun]

Etymotic sounds really natural with its sub bass for certain genres but for others it doesn't have the low rumble effect but my gr07 does but I feel like the gr07 bass is way too heavy and I don't have the bass edition...

 

[briskly]

The ER4S is measured as flatter and more accurate than the GR07 in the bass. ER4S with the good seal has small bass roll below 100Hz and -2 to -3 dB at 20 Hz.

 

[Inks]

that's using the old diffuse-field compensation. I'll say the GR07 is more neutral because it doesnt lack bass, which the ER4S does. 

 

[briskly]

You mean if you correct it to listener preferences of more bass than treble. It turns out listeners don't like a flat measured response from speakers or headphones, which isn't a new observation. The latest target from Harman's research has the listener preference of added bass/reduced treble included.

 

[markanini]

  You mean if you correct it to listener preferences of more bass than treble. It turns out listeners don't like a flat measured response from speakers or headphones, which isn't a new observation. The latest target from Harman's research has the listener preference of added bass/reduced treble included.

No reason to see "listener preference" as a red flag. Our ears and brains are amazing instruments tuned by million years of evolution to recognize real sounds in real spaces and properties thereof. Why would you think listener preference data would be useless for coming up with meaningful conclusions? Studies prove listener preferences don't vary between untrained and trained listeners, different races and ages so they are consistent instruments indeed. In the field of acoustics it's been well known that bass frequencies build up in real rooms and create natural bass boost. No surprises or controversy here. Are you aware an implication of your arguments is that anechoic chambers make ideal listening environments?
 
It's not the first time I've seen arguments like brisklys put forward. Who spreads this BS?

 

[briskly]

Originally Posted by markanini /img/forum/go_quote.gif
No reason to see "listener preference" as a red flag. Our ears and brains are amazing instruments tuned by million years of evolution to recognize real sounds in real spaces and properties thereof. Why would you think listener preference data would be useless for coming up with meaningful conclusions?
 
Studies prove listener preferences don't vary between untrained and trained listeners, different races and ages so they are consistent instruments indeed. In the field of acoustics it's been well known that bass frequencies build up in real rooms and create natural bass boost. No surprises or controversy here. Are you aware an implication of your arguments is that anechoic chambers make ideal listening environments?

 
I'm not sure how you managed to see that from what I said. Manufacturers ought to be interested in what people want to hear.
 
Bass frequencies don't just build up, they are low frequency standing waves that produce constructive and destructive interference corresponding to many dips and peaks. To answer the bit about anechoic chambers, yes and no. It would be beneficial for low frequency consistency and be free of comb filtering and reverberation smear, but the low level out of phase reflections that create the sense of space would be completely eliminated, not for the better.

 

[markanini]

   
I'm not sure how you managed to see that from what I said. Manufacturers ought to be interested in what people want to hear.
 
Bass frequencies don't just build up, they are low frequency standing waves that produce constructive and destructive interference corresponding to many dips and peaks. To answer the bit about anechoic chambers, yes and no. It would be beneficial for low frequency consistency and be free of comb filtering and reverberation smear, but the low level out of phase reflections that create the sense of space would be completely eliminated, not for the better.

 
So a person with more than a novices level of knowledge of acoustics ought to be able to make a reasonable conclusion. But I guess it takes a little more than that to understand the purpose of adding a "bass boost" to a headphone is more than just making the consumer happy. You're incorrect to think an anechoic chamber has anything to do with consistent bass ranges because no one that has a clue trusts anechoic measurements below 100Hz or so. Anyway if the mountains of evidence still aren't enough for you you might want to look into so called house curves and how audio engineers find this a necessity for translatability when working on calibrated monitoring systems. Here's the measured frequency responce of the control room of one audio engineer who is very picky about acoutics: https://www.gearslutz.com/board/attachments/studio-building-acoustics/480006d1435496786-room-curve-after-room-calibration-fr-rr-rr.jpg Compare that to how the green curve differes from the black curve on the Harman curve: http://cdn.innerfidelity.com/images/140202_Blog_HarmanResearchUpdate_GraphDFvsOliveWelti.jpg
As for the sense of space, no respected audio engineer leaves that up to the listeners room. Also do you ever walk around and think about how sounds around you are affected by comb filtering? Probably not, it something our brains are very good at filtering out. We really only hear the tops of those hills on a spectrum graph, and if you trace their outlines you will see that real listening spaces look like the curves in this post.