[gregorio]

[1] All BS from your side again!
[2] Of course i know that i hear a real difference.
[3] Other People can and will believe what they want though if its placebo or not that i am experiencing.
[4] The closed minded i cant convince anyway but
[4a] for the open minded maybe i can convince if they want better sound.

1. What I've stated can be verified in numerous ways by anyone, they can: Visit Wikipedia and find out for themselves how digital data and ethernet work, read the actual ethernet specs, perform a cheap and easy null test, reference objective measurements already posted in this thread, ask a professional network engineer, read published scientific papers, go to high school and get an introduction to digital data, read a textbook or apply the most simple logic to the obviously demonstrated fact of all the critical industries that employ ethernet networks. Anyone can choose not to do a SINGLE one of these things, remain ignorant and instead rely SOLELY on marketing BS but then of course, it's their "side" who is spouting BS! Is this really such a difficult concept to grasp?

2. How do you know it's a "real" difference, because marketing BS told you it's real and you can't be bothered to find out for yourself? You keep saying you "hear a real difference" but never answer the question how you can hear a real difference your HPs or speakers can't output in the first place!

3. If your experience/perception of hearing is NOT subject to various biases, illusions and placebo type effects then firstly, you can't be a human being and secondly, you couldn't experience music in the first place (or stereo, which is also an illusion). People can of course "believe what they want", some people believe the Earth is flat and there's even a society for them. Fortunately though, many sane adults are capable of learning basic facts and applying critical thinking and simple logic!

4. Yet again, you have that backwards: The ONLY people you can maybe convince are the closed minded!
4a. You mean those who are open minded to ONLY marketing BS but closed minded to everything else: Simple objective measurements/tests that PROVE the sound is not audibly different (let alone better), the proven and demonstrated facts of what digital data is, how ethernet works and therefore also closed minded to basic education and simple logic.

What's the word for someone who is closed minded to pretty much everything except marketing BS and calls other people "closed minded"?

G

 

[bluenight]

As there been accusations of snake oil in this thread.
https://darko.audio/2020/03/podcast-20-snake-oil/

 

[TiJo]

The difference between you and Darko is: You are just believing in snake oil, Darko may or may not believe in it, but since he profits from it monetarily, he will promote any kind of oil

 

[gregorio]

As there been accusations of snake oil in this thread. ...

As there has been accusations of snake oil in this thread ... You thought you'd add even more snake oil? Is audiophile marketing really your ONLY source of audio information?

G

 

[F208Frank]

Darko always gives positive reviews only it seems from my limited viewings of his vids, maybe he only reviews things he like, that or he is getting something out of it.

 

[koven]

Darko always gives positive reviews only it seems from my limited viewings of his vids, maybe he only reviews things he like, that or he is getting something out of it.

That is basically all reviews, read anything off stereophile, 6moons, positive-feedback, hifipig, enjoythemusic, you name it.. the wordsmithing and jargon varies but at the end of the day it is all underscored by unabashed enthusiasm, and buy buy buy.. every new product is apparently god's next gift to audiophiles.. I still read it for amusement though

 

[Clive101]

Back again after trying the Vodka and Diamond.

The two Audio quest cables did not fair well. For me, both sucked the life out the bass, all texture was lost and all I could hear was a thud of the drum. So, I put on some Japanese drum music to try and it was confirmed. My standard cable (unknown) between the CX and EX you could hear the skin vibrate, with both the Vodka and Diamond a muffled thud. The Vodka also impacted the midrange and treble with a fog, but the diamond did not.

 

[PointyFox]

That is basically all reviews, read anything off stereophile, 6moons, positive-feedback, hifipig, enjoythemusic, you name it.. the wordsmithing and jargon varies but at the end of the day it is all underscored by unabashed enthusiasm, and buy buy buy.. every new product is apparently god's next gift to audiophiles.. I still read it for amusement though

I love their reviews of obvious scam products like the LessLoss Blackbody.

 

[teknorob23]

I love their reviews of obvious scam products like the LessLoss Blackbody.

I assume you’ve done the research and listened to these cables in a suitably resolving system and your not just relying on what you “know”... that would be very strange position comment from, wouldn’t it?

 

[TiJo]

I assume you’ve done the research and listened to these cables in a suitably resolving system and your not just relying on what you “know”... that would be very strange position comment from, wouldn’t it?

No it would not. If I tell you that the rock I threw in the air a few seconds ago now fell down, instead of flying to the moon you would also not ask me to throw it in the air in a suitably resolving physics simulation.

 

[teknorob23]

No it would not. If I tell you that the rock I through in the air a few seconds ago now fell down, instead of flying you would also not ask me to throw it in the air in a suitably resolving physics simulation.

and there we have the problem in a nutshell. Stick to what you "know". I was suspicious too, but i did the due diligence before passing judgement and i've listened to lots of these cables. I dont really see much point in trying to change your mind, if its so closed that you're not even willing to put your convictions to the test.

 

[TiJo]

If you read all the posts in this whole thread you will realize why this is not necessary and why you are most probably only imagining a difference, where no difference is, if you are not a believer.

Edit: Here is a brain teaser for you: If you download a song and play it 1 hour later, will it sound the same as if you would stream it right now?

 

[gregorio]

[1] I assume you’ve done the research and listened to these cables in a suitably resolving system and your not just relying on what you “know”... that would be very strange position comment from, wouldn’t it?
[2] and there we have the problem in a nutshell.
[2a] Stick to what you "know". I was suspicious too, but i did the due diligence before passing judgement and i've listened to lots of these cables.
[2b] I dont really see much point in trying to change your mind, if its so closed that you're not even willing to put your convictions to the test.

1. If one has actually done the research and therefore does actually "know" the facts, how does listening to these cables make any difference beyond introducing the possibility personal perception biases conflicting with the facts? This is NOT a "very strange position to comment from", it's an entirely logical and normal position to argue from. What would be a "very strange position" is arguing against the actual facts, based on nothing but perception biases!

2. Indeed we do!
2a. I have done my due diligence too, I've actually objectively measured/compared the signal the cable is transferring, which is why I don't need to listen to them. Maybe we have a very different idea of what "due diligence" means? For example, due diligence means to me: Finding the actual facts and dismissing the marketing nonsense. It does NOT mean the other way around!
2b. Wise move, I for one am very closed minded about marketing claims that contradict the actual facts. The same as I'm close minded about the Earth being flat, gravity not existing (as TiJo mentioned) and all sorts of other complete nonsense. What's more, I'm proud of not being so easily suckered by false marketing and tricks of perception, so you "trying to change my mind" is an almost impossible task, unless you have some truly exceptional/extraordinary evidence? And as mentioned, I have put my convictions to the test! I've yet to see an audiophile do the same though (and pass).

G

 

[teknorob23]

1. If one has actually done the research and therefore does actually "know" the facts, how does listening to these cables make any difference beyond introducing the possibility personal perception biases conflicting with the facts? This is NOT a "very strange position to comment from", it's an entirely logical and normal position to argue from. What would be a "very strange position" is arguing against the actual facts, based on nothing but perception biases!

2. Indeed we do!
2a. I have done my due diligence too, I've actually objectively measured/compared the signal the cable is transferring, which is why I don't need to listen to them. Maybe we have a very different idea of what "due diligence" means? For example, due diligence means to me: Finding the actual facts and dismissing the marketing nonsense. It does NOT mean the other way around!
2b. Wise move, I for one am very closed minded about marketing claims that contradict the actual facts. The same as I'm close minded about the Earth being flat, gravity not existing (as TiJo mentioned) and all sorts of other complete nonsense. What's more, I'm proud of not being so easily suckered by false marketing and tricks of perception, so you "trying to change my mind" is an almost impossible task, unless you have some truly exceptional/extraordinary evidence? And as mentioned, I have put my convictions to the test! I've yet to see an audiophile do the same though (and pass).

G

.

But just imagine, you actually listened to one of these cables that you speak of with such with such certainty but haven’t heard, what’s the worse that could happen? Futureshop in the UK give you a 60 day no quibble guarantee on any of their cables and im sure wherever you are there’s a retailer who’ll offer you the same service.
Or are the risks simply too great?

 

[TiJo]

What a stupid argument. If we look at the "rock throwing" example again, will you go out and throw every big rock in the air to prove that gravity exists or will you give up and accept that it exists after you threw a few small rocks, which fell back to earth? Now is it too big of a risk to throw big rocks?