Equal or better than Sennheiser Momentum or B&W P5

[v1rt]

Hi folks,
 
I learned about this forum from a friend. I owned a Sennheiser Momentum for 28 days. I returned it back. The sound quality is phenomenal. I really love this headphone. Unfortunately, everytime after 20-30 mins, my ears would hurt. I think because it's tight.
 
I also learned from my friend that there are different types of headphones, close and open. My Momentum is close I guess since I can barely hear the outside. It's also on ear which I think the reason why it makes it painful after 20 mins. I thought I would get used to it but I didn't.
 
I also learned from him that open headphones sounds better than close headphones. I'm really in love with the sound quality of Momentums and P5s. I would like to own an open headphone that sounds the same as the Momentum or P5 or even sounds better than them. I'm looking for a headphone that will cover my whole ear. I don't care if it's big as long as I would enjoy my listening to music.
 
What open headphones would you recommend under $300-$350?
 
Thanks in advance!
 
Neil

 

[billybob_jcv]

I suspect your friend is going to cost you a lot of money...

Closed & open each have their pros and cons, and I think it depends on the price range being considered. I think at the lower price points, closed headphones seem to hold many of the top spots. At the high end, open headphones seem to be much more common. In the middle ($300 - $500), you can find some excellent examples of both open and closed headphones. So, if you look at the entire universe of headphones, then perhaps your friend is correct, and the best headphones tend to be open. However, at any specific price point, the open vs closed question might be more complicated.

With all that said, for $300-$350, I would be looking at the Sennheiser HD600, HD650 and Philips X2 (all open) and the Mr. Speakers Mad Dogs (closed).

 

[v1rt]

Thanks billybob for the recommendation. If I change my range to $300-$500, what would be your recommendations?

 

[billybob_jcv]

I'm not sure my recommendations would change very much - perhaps add the Sennheiser HD650, Focal Spirit Classic & Shure SRH1540 - but I wouldn't replace the headphones I already suggested - extending the range just gives a few more options.

I'm basing these suggestions on you liking the Momentum. So, I'm trying to suggest headphones that are neutral or a little warm sounding and that do not have a stronger treble. That's why I didn't suggest the AKG, HiFiMan or Beyer. I could be wrong in this assumption...

 

[v1rt]

So AKG, HiFiMan or Beyer have stronger treble? I was hoping ABT Electronics store sell them so I can test but unfortunately, they don't.

 

[v1rt]

After reading so many reviews, looks like I'm going with HD600. However, one of the review said that I'll need an amp and a dac. What is a dac? I don't know what a dac is but will I be able to use it with only amplifier? Are there amplifiers that are great and not so expensive like below $100?

 

[Beyakusenn]

  After reading so many reviews, looks like I'm going with HD600. However, one of the review said that I'll need an amp and a dac. What is a dac? I don't know what a dac is but will I be able to use it with only amplifier? Are there amplifiers that are great and not so expensive like below $100?

The HD600 is a great headpnone; good choice!
 
A DAC is a Digital Analogue Converter. It's what transforms the digital signal from your computer to analogue sine waves. All audio playing devices have a DAC chip: a laptop, an I-pod, a mobile phone, a CD-player, etc. There is however a significant difference in quality between different DACs. Mobile phones and most computers have DACs of poor quality. Portable players differ a lot, but there are brands that sell only DAPs (Digital Audio Players) with high quality DACs, like Fiio, Astell&Kern, iBasso, HiFiMan and more.
For a home set-up people often get a desktop amp+DAC combination. What you spend on it depends on your budget because there are many options out there. For a HD600 I wouldn't recommend any sub $100 amp. Such an amp might bring the HD600 up to high volumes, but the sound is likely to be distorted.
A very popular choice for DAC+amp combination is the ODAC+O2amp combo from JDS Labs. Here is a link to their website: http://www.jdslabs.com/products/48/o2-odac-combo/

 

[money4me247]

honestly right now if you want a better fitting Momentum, Sennheiser has your back!! they recently released a Momentum Gen2 with wider earcups for a true over-ear fit. Price point is $350 for the non-wireless version I think. I would check that out first.
 
If you want an open pair of headphones, you will most likely need to invest in an $200 total entry level amp/dac combo... though you can get by with the really budget but still nice stuff like the $70 schiit fulla. The dac can be dropped if budget is a concern, but for most open headphones that have an impedance higher than 35ohms, you will need an amplifier to reach adequate listening volumes. generally, entry-level amplifiers will run you $99 at least.
 
Sennheiser has a bunch of open headphones at the $300-$350 price point since you already like the Momentums. The HD600 and HD650 are considered to be classic headphones and are extremely highly regarded. They go on sale frequently nowadays to the sub-$300 price point. The HD600 are more neutral with less bass, so I would imagine you would be more comfortable with the HD650 if you are coming from generally bassier closed headphones. Best situation is that you find a place where you can demo both. The HD598 are currently listed on amazon at $149, so that is a solid option as well, but I would highly recommend just waiting for a deal on the HD600 and HD650. I feel like there are deals on those every week on the deals thread & those headphones are among the best & most often recommended mid-fi headphones you can get.
 
Here is the deals thread: http://www.head-fi.org/t/692119/the-deals-discussion-thread-read-the-first-post/13260#post_11400110
 
The other open options I really like in the sub-$350 price range is the AKG K7xx from massdrop ($200) though you can to wait for them to drop again. I personally find them to have the best priceerformance ratio out of all mid-fi headphones as they are based on the $400+ AKG K702 65th Anniversary edition. If you don't want to wait, the AKG K612 can be found at the sub-$200 price point. If you want a large closed headphone but an amazing open sound with a very nice sound stage , the AKG K550 are a great option. Go AKG K545 if you require portable usage. If you stretch your budget up to $500, you can get the K712, but you have reached the point of extreme diminishing returns at that point.
 
My final personal favorite mid-fi open headphone is Hifiman's HE-400i available at $499 MSRP, but $420ish on razordog open box (their open box are basically brand-new in terms of quality, cannot tell they were used & their customer service is excellent so they will take care of any issues you run into). the HE-400i are a pair of orthodynamic headphones which use a slightly different driver technology than the majority of dynamic driver based headphones. Pretty cool and I really enjoy them.
 
The final classic open mid-fi recommendation would be the beyer dt-770/880/990, but I have limited experience with them... only short demo sessions, so I cannot comment too much on their sound.
 
All the headphones I've listed have great sound quality per price and are pretty comfortable as well.
 
edit: I personally would stay away from B&W P5/P7. from my experience I found them to be a bit overpriced for their sound quality, but they are a still good pair of headphones. I just think there are better options out there in terms of value & overall sound quality.

 

[v1rt]

Thanks Beyukusenn for the explanation! That helped me a lot! I'll checkout the link shortly.
 
Money4me247, I really appreciate you writing a very long reply. The more information I learn/get about open headphones, it looks like open headphones are ideal for dedicated listening and not when we are traveling like me who always travel by train especially they require an amplifier for it to perform really well. Now, deciding between open and close headphone is becoming more difficult since I also like to have an awesome performing headphone which from what I've read and told can only be achieved with open headphones. I became very curious about this because the first time I heard Senn Momentum On-Ear, I fell in love with the sound quality. However, when my friend told me last week that open headphones produce sound better than close headphones, I was shocked and a bit challenged and intimidate because I though my Momentum was great. LOL!
 
I looked at the Momentum v2 reviews and looks gorgeous, a bit pricey but it's ok. Looks like I can use it while I'm on train just like my other Momentum that I returned. However, I won't experience how open headphones sound if I don't buy one. I'm thinking of buying an open headphone instead and resurrect my Sony MDR-ZX100. Actually I'm using it right now and I'm on train.
 
I will check out all the models you suggested. I will also looked at the amps that Beyukusenn suggested. Oh, last night, I saw an amp called bottlehead Crack. Watched a review of it in YouTube and the guy said it was a little bit grainy on the Senn HD600.

 

[Beyakusenn]

For on the go I'd never recommend open headphones because they leak a lot of sound outwards (so everyone around can hum along with your music) and they barely isolate noise from outside. 
By the way: open headphones are not always better than closed headphones. there are areas where open headphones below $300 can't compete with the best closed headphones in the same price range. For example the bass extension of the Focal Spirit Pro (closed) is better than from any open headphone in its price range).
One of the main advantages from an open design is that you get a more realistic image of the space of the music. This perception of 'space' and being able to locate specific sounds are important parts of what is called the soundstage. For example, if you hear the recording of an orchestra in a large building through your Momentums with your eyers closed, most of the instrument would sound very close to you. If you were wearing the HD600 however, you'd get the impression that you were in a much larger space and it'd be easier to imagine where the clarinets were playing. The soundstage of headphones won't ever be as good as the soundstage from a good stereo system, but you can't carry that around in your backpack.
 
I have myself headphones for on the go (Beyer t51p) and headphones for home listening (Beyer T1). For on the go, I prefer a non-neutral sound signature with an elevated bass (like the Momentums) because the low frequencies tend to drown in the ambient noise more easily than other frequencies. At home I prefer a neutral sound signature (like the T1), because to me that is the more realistic and enjoyable presentation of the music.
The T1 is a semi-open headphone that can produce great sub-bass and also has a good soundstage. In the higher price range most headphones, whether open or closed, will have good extension for bass and treble.
The t51p is an on-ear model which has a much smaller soundstage than any open headphone, but it isolates sound from outside very well, it is small and it has an elevated bass making it ideal for portable purposes (for my ears and preferences of course).

 

[v1rt]

Excellent explanation Beyakusenn! I now have a better understanding of what soundstage means However, I saw a new term from your post and I'm not familiar with it, "bass extension".
 
I really need to decide if open or close. A little tough especially if I buy an open headphone, I need to also spend on the amp which would bring the overall cost higher. If I buy a closed headphone, I will enjoy it but I'm scared if wife will allow me to buy the open headphone in the future especially she's not into technology. She won't understand. All she understands is that it's an expense. HAHAHA!
 
WOW, really tough!
 
Ok, I really like the On-ear Momentums because sound is natural to warm. I also love the bass, it's perfect for my taste. However, design is another thing. Looking at other headphone designs is making me aroused! They're sexy. I like the looks of AKG K7xx headphones. The design of HD600 is OK but Momentum generation or version 2 is more attractive. Can you please describe the bass on HD600 vs the Momentums? Is it softer?

 

[money4me247]

Excellent explanation Beyakusenn! I now have a better understanding of what soundstage means However, I saw a new term from your post and I'm not familiar with it, "bass extension".

I really need to decide if open or close. A little tough especially if I buy an open headphone, I need to also spend on the amp which would bring the overall cost higher. If I buy a closed headphone, I will enjoy it but I'm scared if wife will allow me to buy the open headphone in the future especially she's not into technology. She won't understand. All she understands is that it's an expense. HAHAHA!

WOW, really tough!

Ok, I really like the On-ear Momentums because sound is natural to warm. I also love the bass, it's perfect for my taste. However, design is another thing. Looking at other headphone designs is making me aroused! They're sexy. I like the looks of AKG K7xx headphones. The design of HD600 is OK but Momentum generation or version 2 is more attractive. Can you please describe the bass on HD600 vs the Momentums? Is it softer?

biggest difference is there is less bass quantity when comparing the bass of the closed momentums to all the majority of open headphones listed. the open headphones with a bit more bass quantity would be the akg k7xx, sennheiser hd650, and hifiman he400i. also the old Hifiman he400 is quite well renowned for its bass.

bass extension is how far down the headphones can go in the frequency response. some headphones you can hear the lower subbass easier. does not mean bass boost or extra bass quantity as often a midbass boost would make it harder to hear the details of the subbass.

i wld recommend trying a few open headphones to get a sense of the differences yourself. a lot of headphones are recommended here bc they have a neutral frequency response, but that may not be the sound signature you enjoy and are looking for.

 

[v1rt]

That's what I'll do! Thank you so much!