[Rayzilla]

I started this thread in the Headphone Amps (full-size) forum but someone suggested that I should move it to this forum. I guess my situation kind of fits in both forums (entry/mid level full size amp paired with high-end headphone) so I hope it will be fine for me to be in both forums. Please let me know if it is not.
 
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I am prematurely searching for a mate for the HD800 that I do not own yet. 

  But if I can acquire said amp(/dac) from my HP retailer, I have a better chance to negotiate a package deal. This is where I am at now and here is my story. I apologize for the length of it so here goes...
 
Recent auditioning:
Hi, soon to become a HD800 owner. Recently, I listened to the HD800, TH600, TH900, Ed12 and Ed10. I spent a little over an hour listening to them through my portable source of Note 2 into E18 portable dac/amp and also with the Lehman Linear (in place of the E18). I quickly ruled out the Ed12 and then the Ed10. And now it has came down to the HD800 with the two Fostex.
 
What I listen to:
I primarily listen to EDM (mostly Hardwell, Martin Solveig, Bingo Players and other Tomorrowland type DJs but occasionally branching off to Buble, Coldplay-like music and Cantopop. And I am sure that I will be branching off into some classical and the like recordings as I upgrade my equipment ...
 
Initial HP upgrade considerations:
At the beginning of my HP upgrade search, I thought the TH900 would be the runaway winner. Then I added the TH600 to the mix because with the lower price, I could add a desktop amp to the purchase. Finally, I decided to read up on the HD800 and the more I read, the more I became interested in it. I never thought about the HD800 before because I had the misunderstanding that it would be too light on the bass and that it was mainly only good for classical, which I only occasionally listen to.
 
Almost final HP upgrade decision:
I will update this after my final audition but boy was I wrong on my understanding of the HD800!!! I will be going back for a final round of listening to make my decision on the HD800, TH600 or TH900. The soundstage and detail of the HD800 has me leaning towards them. Plus I think the HD800 will complement my Ed8 better than either of the Fostex. I am aware that I did not audition the THs with the proper equipment but the same can be said for the HD800. I just found the THs to be too similar to my Ed8 and the HD800 to give me the greater variety in my HP mix. After listening to quite a bit of bass heavy music, I found the THs to get a little tiring. I thought I was bordering on being a little bit of a bass head but I am afraid that it may be a little too much after longer play time.
 
The sound that I am after with my amp purchase:
I love the soundstage of the HD800 and I would like to find an amp that keeps the airy, detailed, and articulate sound. So in a sense, I wonder if I am a bit of a bass head and treble head at the same time.
 
I would also like to use my Pro900 and RS1 with the amp/dac as well. The Ed8 is my primary portable HP.
 
Bass Performance: Detailed and punchy bass and mid-bass. Separated.
 
Sonic Detail: Micro details. Keeping everything separate and transparent, not muddled up. This is a double edged sword for me at this time because many of my music is not the best quality.
 
Sound Stage/Imaging: This is the biggest strength of the HD800 and one of the main reasons why I am choosing it over the THs, so I want to keep as much of this and play on this strength as much as I can afford.
 
Amps (/dac) I am considering:
Here is a list of amps that I have researched in the short time. Unfortunately my budget is limited to about $800 because it has already been quite a task getting the green light on the HP upgrade. If my HP retailer carries it, I should be able to negotiate a better price. If you have any other suggestions, please feel free to suggest them.
 
Tube Amps: I haven't tried any tube amps yet and my understanding is that they tend to warm the sound (I'm not sure if this is what I want because it seems that I like the highs that others are bothered by or maybe my hearing is just not very good anymore. But will tube amps take away the detailed and separate sound that I want to keep, will it be too warm (or do I misunderstand the meaning of warm)?

1. Woo WA6 (mainly because the HP retailer carries this and thus, I should be able to negotiate a better package deal).
2. Woo WA6SE but this is out of my budget range too.
3. Little Dot MarkVI (but not sure where I can get this locally and it is a little out of my budget range).Other Little Dot suggestions?
4. HiFiMan EF5 (never tried this but the HP retailer carries it)
5. Schiit dac/amp combos (never tried these but the HP retailer carries them)

 
Solid State Amps:

1. Audio GD-NFB 11.32 - the price is great and it seems to offer the detail and transparency that I am after. Plus it is a dac as well.
2. Fostex HP-A4 (this is not out yet but the retailer carries the A8, so they will probably have the A4 when it is released here in Hong Kong)
3. Graham Slee Ultra Linear or Solo (I tried the SUL although it didn't seem like much of an upgrade from my portable E18)
4. HiFiMan EF6 (never tried this but HP retailer carries it although it is also a little out of my budget range)
5. Musical Fidelity M1 HPA (never tried this but HP retailer carries it)
6. Pathos Aurium (never tried this but HP retailer carries it)
7. SPL Auitor or Phonitor (both carried by HP retailer although the Phonitor is out of my budget and appears to only be balanced)
8. HDVD800 or 600 - this is way out of my budget but I just had to include it to hear what you have to say about it. Plus it is a dac as well. 

 
If there is anything else you need to know to help guide me, please let me know.
 
I appreciate your time and patience in reading my non-audiophile language above. Hopefully there will be enough feedback to guide me in the right direction.
 
Raymond

 

[joyway]

Hi, Rayzilla. As you need an entry/mid-level amp, which I think you will sell it in future, I recommend you to buy a second-hand and popular amp from the headfi. When you upgrade to a higher level amp, it will not cost you too much money. So I choose the wa6se. Try to buy one from other headfi-member.

 

[TheDuke990]

I don't believe that much in so called "highend" rigs. The mid-level amps are absolutely sufficient and there are none or maximum very small differences in sound but not in costs .
I compared a lot of amps (Lehmann BCL, Beyer A1, Bryston BHA-1, audio-gd, O2, etc.) and it ends up with buying an O2 because I (and some friends of mine as well) was not able to hear any significant difference but you have to gain your own experiences.

 

[Stapsy]

I would seriously consider a Schiit Vali for the HD800.  It is a great value at $119 and it will be seriously hard to beat with the HD800 in the $1000 or less category.  This way you can save up some money to buy the amp you really want or put it into another part of your gear.  You might even find yourself not wanting to change out the Vali.

 

[FatmanSize48]

Why not the M8? Admittedly, the difference between the M8 and O2 is pretty much meaningless, but the ability to just plug and go with almost any device makes the M8 an amazing jack of all trades. It works great as a desktop and (fairly) portable rig and makes my HD800 sing. The DAC section is just an added benefit. The best value, and thus my usual reccomendation to friends, remains the O2/ODAC combo. One gets most of the performance of a premier setup but at a minuscule fraction of the price.

 

[JamieMcC]

As its not on your list pop over to the Crack bottlehead otl forum and ask about pairing your HD800 with the Bottlehead Crack amp, better still copy and post your full post their its a friendly bb. I noticed quiet a few who are using the Crack with HD800 and rate the combo very highly. It is stunning with my T1's and HD650's and you will only need about half of your $800 budget. Many Crack owners have tried the tube amps above and really rate the BH Crack HD800 combo highly.
 
http://www.head-fi.org/t/476650/crack-bottlehead-otl/3375#post_10114663

 

[Rayzilla]

  I would seriously consider a Schiit Vali for the HD800.  It is a great value at $119 and it will be seriously hard to beat with the HD800 in the $1000 or less category.  This way you can save up some money to buy the amp you really want or put it into another part of your gear.  You might even find yourself not wanting to change out the Vali.

Thanks for suggesting the Vali. For some reason, the HP retailer does carry this model on their website so I will need to see if they have it at the store or if they will have to order it for me, which means that I would not be able to demo it. I remember the Vali being mentioned by other HD800 owners too and they recommended. But I believe it was the opposite with the Valhalla (unless I am getting the names mixed up, I will need to pay closer attention to this going forward).
 
The great thing about this option is that, within this purchase, I would be able to upgrade my iem as well. I am thinking of the Shure 425, which I demoed when I was there.

 

[Rayzilla]

Why not the M8? Admittedly, the difference between the M8 and O2 is pretty much meaningless, but the ability to just plug and go with almost any device makes the M8 an amazing jack of all trades. It works great as a desktop and (fairly) portable rig and makes my HD800 sing. The DAC section is just an added benefit. The best value, and thus my usual reccomendation to friends, remains the O2/ODAC combo. One gets most of the performance of a premier setup but at a minuscule fraction of the price.

I never considered the M8 because it just looked so simple and yet priced at $700. I will need to do some reading up on it and see if it is readily available in Hong Kong. In general, what is the sound signature of the M8?

 

[Rayzilla]

  Hi, Rayzilla. As you need an entry/mid-level amp, which I think you will sell it in future, I recommend you to buy a second-hand and popular amp from the headfi. When you upgrade to a higher level amp, it will not cost you too much money. So I choose the wa6se. Try to buy one from other headfi-member.

Based on the comments on this forum regarding the WA6SE, I would love to be able to afford this beast. I should be able to negotiate a discount with the HP retailer but I don't know if that will be enough to get it within my budget.
 
I noticed that you are also in Hong Kong. Would you happen to be an"other headfi-member" that is selling a WA6SE? 

  I don't see any listed in the forum classifieds.

 

[Rayzilla]

  As its not on your list pop over to the Crack bottlehead otl forum and ask about pairing your HD800 with the Bottlehead Crack amp, better still copy and post your full post their its a friendly bb. I noticed quiet a few who are using the Crack with HD800 and rate the combo very highly. It is stunning with my T1's and HD650's and you will only need about half of your $800 budget. Many Crack owners have tried the tube amps above and really rate the BH Crack HD800 combo highly.
 
http://www.head-fi.org/t/476650/crack-bottlehead-otl/3375#post_10114663

I remember there being a post with a link to how easy it is to DIY one of these units. I'll have to find it and see if this is something that I can do.
 
I forgot to mention in my opening post that I would like to be able to use the set up to work with my other headphones as well (mainly the Pro900 and RS1). I'll update the opening post to include this now.
 
Off the top of your head, what crack-bottlehead set up would you recommend for me? Thanks.

 

[FatmanSize48]

The M8, without any of the tuning switches used, is quite near the "wire with gain" that the ideal audio equipment should be, but treble and bass controls can be used to sculpt the SS to one's preferences. I can stick my HD800 and M8 in a Pelican case and listen to what is essentially a reference rig almost anywhere. Can a WA6SE do that?

 

[Rayzilla]

The M8, without any of the tuning switches used, is quite near the "wire with gain" that the ideal audio equipment should be, but treble and bass controls can be used to sculpt the SS to one's preferences. I can stick my HD800 and M8 in a Pelican case and listen to what is essentially a reference rig almost anywhere. Can a WA6SE do that?

So the M8 is very transparent with no emphasis to the bass or treble. I think this is something like what I am looking for and it powers up the HD800 adequately? It's just hard to get over how simple it is and looks (for $700).
 
I really need to give a tube amp a listen to see what I really think of that sound. I won't really know for sure until I try...

 

[seeteeyou]

.

 

[joyway]

  Based on the comments on this forum regarding the WA6SE, I would love to be able to afford this beast. I should be able to negotiate a discount with the HP retailer but I don't know if that will be enough to get it within my budget.
 
I noticed that you are also in Hong Kong. Would you happen to be an"other headfi-member" that is selling a WA6SE? 

  I don't see any listed in the forum classifieds.I

No, I'm using schiit vali now. You can find a suitable amp in “review33 二手市场”. Be patient and then you can get one. Pls remember that if it is not your "end" amp, the most important thing is that it should cost less when you sell it. Good Luck!

 

[JamieMcC]

  I remember there being a post with a link to how easy it is to DIY one of these units. I'll have to find it and see if this is something that I can do.
 
I forgot to mention in my opening post that I would like to be able to use the set up to work with my other headphones as well (mainly the Pro900 and RS1). I'll update the opening post to include this now.
 
Off the top of your head, what crack-bottlehead set up would you recommend for me? Thanks.
 

 
Hi here is a super thread started by Loquah which reviews the build and quality all of all the Bottlehead headphone amps,  Crack , Sex (also powers speakers) & Mainline it is very informative and well written. The Crack was my first diy project I had never soldered before the manual is excellent and the bottlehead forum is a mine of info and help with any troubleshooting or upgrading. Questions which are often answered by the designers of the amps themselves.
 
The reviews are in the first few posts
 
http://www.head-fi.org/t/683012/bottlehead-amplifier-discussion-comparison-thread-crack-sex-mainline#post_9831533
 
There is also a helpful video review of the Crack build by Inner-fidelity which suggest the HD800 pairing around 22.30 minutes or so in.
 
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s5rWCEux_BI