[F107plus5]

Yup; most folks buy them through the Alessandro web-site!

The MS-1 can be ordered with either the 1/8 or 1/4" plug, and if the 1/8" version is ordered, a 1/8 to 1/4" adapter is included with the phones. Pretty handy having a choice, especially if the main use for the phones is out of a portable or a sound card!

So if a listener wanted the smaller 1/8" plug, ordering the one with the mini-plug adapter is the way to go!

Anyway; Alessandro is a pretty small company and they don't get around to answering their phone or E-mail very regularly. They do confirm receipt of orders, but most often a person doesn't know if the cans have been shipped until the cash has been taken from their account! Most folks get their phones within about a week in the US.

 

[jazzz]

Thanks.

I know this sounds dumb, but should I order the 1/8 kind, or 1/4? This is through an iPod.

 

[jcx]

I would caution against the MS-1 enthusiasm here

they loose on 2 counts when driven with iPods:

the low 32 Ohm impedance gives a higher low frequency cut off with the undersized ouput coupling cap in all iPods (except Shuffle), higher impedance is definitely better here ~ 100 Ohms is a good compromize for low frequency extension and still coupling enough power from the iPod's limited voltage drive

With iPod's the low sensitivity of the MS-1 (and all Grado manufactured headphones) gives inadequate headroom for really dynamic music - yes they can be listenable but there simply isn't the reserve of headroom I would want

Grado/Alessandro sensitivities are given for dB SPL with 1 Vrms drive, although they both give a inaccurate |mV in their lit - iPods can just manage 1 Vrms so 100 dB is all you get before clipping with the MS-1

 

[Davesrose]

Quote:

Originally Posted by jcx /img/forum/go_quote.gif Grado/Alessandro sensitivities are given for dB SPL with 1 Vrms drive, although they both give a inaccurate |mV in their lit - iPods can just manage 1 Vrms so 100 dB is all you get before clipping with the MS-1

Isn't that a good thing?

If you listen to over 85 dB for extended periods, you're likely to get hearing damage. 100 is pretty excessive!

Also, what high impedance headphone would be adequate for the ipod if it has to have high sensitivity (I can't think of any that exist off the top off my head)?

 

[jcx]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Davesrose /img/forum/go_quote.gif Isn't that a good thing? If you listen to over 85 dB for extended periods, you're likely to get hearing damage. 100 is pretty excessive! Also, what high impedance headphone would be adequate for the ipod if it has to have high sensitivity (I can't think of any that exist off the top off my head)?

am I going to have to post this link every time I post?

http://headwize.com/articles/hearing_art.htm

read it twice, once for protecting your hearing, and again to appreciate just how much dynamic range you should want to be able to reproduce, even if only for seconds per hr of listening

"high" sensitivity isn't at all necessary, just main stream ordinary sensitivity 95+ dB/mW headphones are way ahead of the MS-1, when converted to dB/mW the MS-1 sensitivity is only 85 dB/mW

a quick example would be the Sony MDR-SA1000 at 70 Ohm, 102 dB/mW they would be driven an octave lower than the MS-1 and not clip on 14 dB higher peaks with iPods

even the high impedance HD580 at 300 Ohms and 97 dB/mW has a few dB spl edge at iPod drive levels vs the MS-1

but the HD595 at 120 Ohms and 112 dB/1V would be a really ideal match spec wise, if a little hard on the old wallet

 

[nelamvr6]

Quote:

Originally Posted by jcx /img/forum/go_quote.gif I would caution against the MS-1 enthusiasm here they loose on 2 counts when driven with iPods: the low 32 Ohm impedance gives a higher low frequency cut off with the undersized ouput coupling cap in all iPods (except Shuffle), higher impedance is definitely better here ~ 100 Ohms is a good compromize for low frequency extension and still coupling enough power from the iPod's limited voltage drive With iPod's the low sensitivity of the MS-1 (and all Grado manufactured headphones) gives inadequate headroom for really dynamic music - yes they can be listenable but there simply isn't the reserve of headroom I would want Grado/Alessandro sensitivities are given for dB SPL with 1 Vrms drive, although they both give a inaccurate |mV in their lit - iPods can just manage 1 Vrms so 100 dB is all you get before clipping with the MS-1

I'd be interested in knowing how the Grado numbers are inaccurate.

 

[Davesrose]

Quote:

Originally Posted by jcx /img/forum/go_quote.gif am I going to have to post this link every time I post? http://headwize.com/articles/hearing_art.htm read it twice, once for protecting your hearing, and again to appreciate just how much dynamic range you should want to be able to reproduce, even if only for seconds per hr of listening

Well apparently you are, since it's not what other sites say:


http://www.dangerousdecibels.org/hearingloss.cfm

I'm more inclined to believe the CDC on hearing loss vs. headwise. Over 15 minutes of 100db is considered dangerous. I don't know about other people, but I usually listen to music for at least 2 CDs.....not less then 15 minutes! Besides, buzz saw levels is pretty loud. Now I would tend to agree that dynamics are different for low volume vs high volume (and that might actually favor Grados since they're usually perceived as being better performers at low volume vs other cans). But I certainly don't pick headphones based on how well they might sound at a level that I won't be listening for an extended time with. All headphones I've listened to, I've liked at safe listening levels. Once you get past 100db, we're talking less then 7 minutes that you can be listening!

 

[Meugenio]

Quote:

Originally Posted by jazzz /img/forum/go_quote.gif Thanks. I know this sounds dumb, but should I order the 1/8 kind, or 1/4? This is through an iPod.

1/8

 

[Davesrose]

Quote:

Originally Posted by jcx /img/forum/go_quote.gif "high" sensitivity isn't at all necessary, just main stream ordinary sensitivity 95+ dB/mW headphones are way ahead of the MS-1, when converted to dB/mW the MS-1 sensitivity is only 85 dB/mW

I also side with nelamvr6, and would like to know where you got 85 db/mw as the sensitivity for the MS-1? That's awefully low. I've listened to what I've thought to be the lowest sensitivity/ the k501s, which have a rating of 93 db/mw. Haven't listened to the MS-1, but I know the SR60s are published at 100db/mw....and to my ears, that sounds about right (ie they weren't as loud as my 50ohm 595s, but louder then the HD580s and k501s).

 

[jcx]

Grado/Alessandro literature is simply Wrong:

http://headwize.com/ubb/showpage.php?fnum=3&tid=6081

the only reasonable assumption is that they are actually measured @ 1Vrms and marketing has mangled the units


someone else who thinks Grados aren't a good match for iPod's:

http://www.stereophile.com//digitals...34/index5.html

 

[Davesrose]

Quote:

Originally Posted by jcx /img/forum/go_quote.gif Grado/Alessandro literature is simply Wrong: http://headwize.com/ubb/showpage.php?fnum=3&tid=6081 the only reasonable assumption is that they are actually measured @ 1Vrms and marketing has mangled the units

Looks like in that forum thread people are even debating whether it's 98db/mw or db/mv. I'm inclined to believe it's db/mw because when I borrowed some SR60s, I found them more sensitive then my k501s or HD580s, but less sensitive then my HD595s (this was all off of the same setup: it's certainly much louder then the k501). Real world experimenting should be a better indicator then some internet sources (where apparently no one can agree and are spreading some miscommunication). I haven't listened to them through an ipod, but sometimes I think this site overdoes it with how many mvs a source needs. Though if you like listening to earth shattering loudnesses, then maybe you'll need an amp

Heck, before I knew about this site, I thought my HD580s sounded fine without an amp....even through an anemic Creative Zen

 

[nelamvr6]

Hmmmm...

That is interesting. I wonder why they list their sensitivity that way. Is there a valid technical reason for doing so?

I have never tried the HD-595's, but I can say that my MS-1's are MUCH easier to drive than the HD-580's I had. I could easily achieve listenable volume levels straight out of an iPod with the MS-1's, not even close with the HD-580's.

 

[jcx]

I remembered seeing a spl meter at work - probably 20yrs from last cal

with a drilled wooden block "ear simulator" with ~ 2.5 cc front volume I get 111 dB from my SR-60 at 1 Vrms at the headphone jack (swept the freq from ~500-2K to check for resonance) - other reasonably consistent measurements of HD600 @ 100 dB and HD280 pro @ 110 dB with the same 1 Vrms at the jack suggest that the test setup is within a few dB of correct (possibly reading 2 dB low)


Clearly the Headwize crew was misleading me

so Grado/MS1 headphones do appear to be rated for 98-100 db/mW SPL

This does make the grados and MS-1 plausable choices for direct iPod drive, the low Z does still compromise the low frequency response but they should have sufficient dynamic headroom even with the slightly less than 1 Vrms the iPods (except Shuffle) can put out

for more inconsistant spec fun compare the german HD595 tech info vs the US site for 50 vs 120 Ohm resistance

 

[CoppellStereo1]

i love my HD-555's, you could get a pair of those for around what you are looking for, i do run my through an full analog receiver, and now im in love with headphones. i watch all my movies and tv through them even though i have a sick surround sound system

 

[sgrossklass]

Quote:

Originally Posted by jcx /img/forum/go_quote.gif so Grado/MS1 headphones do appear to be rated for 98-100 db/mW SPL

98 dB, according to j-curve's sensitivity spreadsheet. So taking a -2 dB offset into account, your measurements appear to be spot on for all cans.