[jp11801]

Quote:

Originally Posted by OverlordXenu /img/forum/go_quote.gif (snip) Also, there is no way to train our ears to hear more music, and everyone's ears (outside of some kind of damage or defect, ie. genetic, time, hearing damage, etc.) are pretty much the same. .

This is just patently false, many people listen in a passive mode and can do things like pick out the bass line in a song or listen for picking technique that a guitar player uses or the voicing of a chord that sounds totally different than the standard voicing.
When I first started playing guitar it took a while but with just a little bit of practice you can appreciate and delineate many things in both live and pre recorded music and equipment for that matter. There is a big difference between not noticing something and not having the ability to hear something.

 

[OverlordXenu]

Quote:

Originally Posted by jp11801 /img/forum/go_quote.gif This is just patently false, many people listen in a passive mode and can do things like pick out the bass line in a song or listen for picking technique that a guitar player uses or the voicing of a chord that sounds totally different than the standard voicing. When I first started playing guitar it took a while but with just a little bit of practice you can appreciate and delineate many things in both live and pre recorded music and equipment for that matter. There is a big difference between not noticing something and not having the ability to hear something.

Listening closely is not training your ears. You could hear those things before, you just didn't focus in on them. I'm not saying you can't do that, I'm saying we can't train ourselves/our ears to "listen to more" than we already can.

 

[jp11801]

Quote:

Originally Posted by OverlordXenu /img/forum/go_quote.gif Listening closely is not training your ears. You could hear those things before, you just didn't focus in on them. I'm not saying you can't do that, I'm saying we can't train ourselves/our ears to "listen to more" than we already can.

no poop sherlock but if you know what to look for and open up your point of reference you can absolutely hear/notice more.

I'll provide you with a simple example, I went to friends house to listen to speakers. He had been listening for a while and enjoying the sound. I sat in the sweet spot and immediately noticed something was wrong, there was no center image. One speaker was connected out of phase. The person listening to it had no idea something was wrong until pointed out. Once we corrected the speaker connection he immediately noticed the difference. You train your self by focusing in on things and listening after a while you can pick things out. The phase example is a bit of a OTT one but just because you do not take the time or 'believe' it can be done does not make it so.

now I have to get back to teaching my pet pig to sing

 

[mencargo]

I'm in the same situation as bigb_
I just brought a used Audio Technica A900 headphones.
And I'm now with Onboard Audio, Realtek ALC888 codec.
The sound is great, but as bigb_, I don't really know what I'm missing from a better audio source.
I have mainly MPC audio (Musepack), some MP3 192, OGG, FLAC, APE.... Over 60 Gb of music.
Haven't been able to compare lossless with lossy music for now.

I agree with OverlordXenu, I don't think you can listen more with training, but you can notice more paying more attention, and you can train that.
I notice this with my brothers, both musicians, that can notice much more details than me, but again, if they explain it to me and I listen it again, I begin to notice them, they where always there but I just don't have the experience and haven't pay as much attention as them.

And I would like to ask another question about the audio source.
I was thinking about the Auzentech Prelude sound card for my headphones, I just want to be sure if they can deliver the power to drive my cans and that the sound quality would be the same as a EMU 0404 USB.

 

[bigb_]

Quote:

Originally Posted by jp11801 /img/forum/go_quote.gif no poop sherlock but if you know what to look for and open up your point of reference you can absolutely hear/notice more. I'll provide you with a simple example, I went to friends house to listen to speakers. He had been listening for a while and enjoying the sound. I sat in the sweet spot and immediately noticed something was wrong, there was no center image. One speaker was connected out of phase. The person listening to it had no idea something was wrong until pointed out. Once we corrected the speaker connection he immediately noticed the difference. You train your self by focusing in on things and listening after a while you can pick things out. The phase example is a bit of a OTT one but just because you do not take the time or 'believe' it can be done does not make it so. now I have to get back to teaching my pet pig to sing

Yeah, I agree. It's not that you suddenly head more than before, like physically hear extra frequencies or something like that. It's just that you start noticing things that you simply did not notice before. They were there, you ears did pick them up, but your brain did not react to them.
It's the same with photography. Once you start learning you start seeing things that you were completely unaware of before.

That being said, I have to agree with the remark about the lossy/lossless file difference. I read some of the science behind it, and I can now make an educated guess. I think you'd probably need a commercial grade high quality recoding studio with all the equipment and acoustics + 20 years of experience to hear the difference between well ripped 320 kbit and FLAC record. Of course some recordings are better suited for lossy encryption (less dynamic range etc.) than others, but the main point still holds.

Anyway... I am getting that 0404 usb anyway :-D

Unfortunately I cannot rerip and reencode my CDs again cause that's just too many of them and I don't even know when many of them are anyway There's a good possibility the quality of the ripping/encoding was not all that great to begin with, but that's another story. I'll just have to settle for what I have

 

[jp11801]

Quote:

Originally Posted by mencargo /img/forum/go_quote.gif I agree with OverlordXenu, I don't think you can listen more with training, but you can notice more paying more attention, and you can train that. I notice this with my brothers, both musicians, that can notice much more details than me, but again, if they explain it to me and I listen it again, I begin to notice them, they where always there but I just don't have the experience and haven't pay as much attention as them.

yes it called training when someone teaches you to listen to things and how to point them out.
Just like training someone to play guitar you show them how to do something and then let them do it then show them some more things?

 

[mencargo]

Yes, but the thing is... I don't believe that with training you can hear MORE, I think you can focus in certain details you didn't and identify them.
It's hard to tell, because you DIDN'T, but that's what I believe.

 

[jp11801]

Quote:

Originally Posted by mencargo /img/forum/go_quote.gif Yes, but the thing is... I don't believe that with training you can hear MORE, I think you can focus in certain details you didn't and identify them. It's hard to tell, because you DIDN'T, but that's what I believe.

of course it's not unlike the training law enforcement goes through to be more aware of people surroundings... it's not like it was not there before you just notice it now. I'm not sure how this is unclear... the point is most people do not listen for these things and if they can't identify them them objectively they have not heard them. If you don;t hear something as identified by your inability to point it out the fact that the sound entered your ear and your ear picked up the vibration but you were not able to discern it you did not hear it.
Yes the sound entered your head but you were oblivious to it and only after someone points it out is it now obvious and heard.

 

[OverlordXenu]

But, I have to ask, does focusing on more details improve your listening experience?

 

[bigb_]

Quote:

Originally Posted by OverlordXenu /img/forum/go_quote.gif But, I have to ask, does focusing on more details improve your listening experience?

You guys are talking about the same things using different words and nobody wants to agree because everybody wants to prove they are right :-D

To answer your question: I think it does improve my listening experience. At the end of the day it just depends what you're after and why you listen to music to begin with. I can listen to music while doing something else just to have something in the background. In that case it doesn't really matter - neither the quality of the digital data, nor the rendering of it etc. It's just something to keep you going. On the other hand, if you are sitting in your rocking chair, trying to shake off a ****ed up, hard 15 hour long day at the office and you fire up that Al Di Meola piece and listen closely then EVERYTHING matters