[obobskivich]

it should be unamplified, the volume control afaik just controls the system volume, so its between whatever the floor is (like -100) and 0.0 out

another option, although one i'm not sure if you can do on a laptop, is to look for something with Dolby Digital Live, which will just "poof" things to AC-3 esque streams that you can feed into your reciever, and get 5.1 over digital for things like games

PreSonus has some firewire interfaces, although I don't know much about them, i've heard they compare nicely to M-Audio's in the same price range, and I've heard great things about the FireWire 410, which can do up to 7.1 discrete output over analog, or you can assign them however you like (multi-stereo, etc) and it can act as an A/D and D/A box

it also can do DTS/AC-3 output to a reciever or similar

idk, once you step outside of 2x2 interfaces and basic 4x4's, things start getting wild and expensive

 

[kilgoretrout]

The specifications for the X-Fi Surround 5.1 mention a headphone out with 1/8" jack, which I guess is amplified, and RCA stereo out jacks, which I guessing is not amplified.

I think AC3 Filter or ffdshow can be used to encode 6 channel audio into AC-3, but sound quality may suffer because it is a lossy encoding. However, these do not work with games, only DirectShow enabled software.

The FireWire 410 looks interesting, but again it doesn't have drivers currently for my platform. I'll take a look at the Presonus interfaces though.

 

[obobskivich]

what is your platform? (sorry if i didn't catch it earlier in the thread) one of the 64-bit Windows' i'm guessing? (in which case, just stop trying, lol, seriously, driver support is hell)

the X-Fi Surround has RCA stereo output for front L/R, and TRS 1/8" for the other 6 channels, in addition to a headphone out, and a line in jack

the volume control knob, iirc, is either to control settings/stuff in the drivers, or to control the output of the headphone thign, or to control the master level of the box (like the windows sound volume)

but the 5.1 out isn't going to be a gain enhanced signal, unless you want it lower than line level

 

[kilgoretrout]

I have been using Vista x64 for over a year now. I had some driver problems initially, but everything has been peachy since then. It's really not as bad as people make it seem.

It looks like the Presonus Firebox is the least expensive device from Presonus that has Digital I/O, but I can't find any information on whether it supports AC-3/DTS pass-through. Vista x64 is supported.

I wonder if it is at all possible to find the proper drivers for the M-Audio FireWire 410.

 

[infinitesymphony]

Your requirements are really narrowing the possibility for quality choices. If I were you, I'd just get the E-MU 0404 USB and find a suitable application with ASIO output. The Presonus Firebox is significantly more expensive and has inferior components.

 

[kilgoretrout]

I don't see why the requirements are narrowing because I'm not looking for anything overly complicated. I like music, movies, and games and I want to be able to enjoy all of those things with one simple device.

The Emu 0404 USB is not suitable by itself. It will work fine for stereo use, but being forced to use ASIO so that the Emu can transmit SPDIF to a receiver when I want my 5.1 doesn't make sense. I wouldn't be able to do something as simple as watch a video in a browser or play a game without switching to headphones because web browsers don't have ASIO support.

Can you explain which components of the Presonus Firebox are inferior to the Emu and why they are inferior. Also, how does the X-Fi Surround hold up compared to those.

 

[infinitesymphony]

Quote:

Originally Posted by kilgoretrout /img/forum/go_quote.gif Can you explain which components of the Presonus Firebox are inferior to the Emu and why they are inferior. Also, how does the X-Fi Surround hold up compared to those.

Inferior DAC chip (and possibly ADC), and the microphone preamps sound dull compared to the E-MU. The headphone amplifier in the Presonus Firebox may be better than the one in the E-MU 0404 USB. The X-Fi Surround would be worse than both but might allow pass-through.

Quote:

Originally Posted by kilgoretrout I like music, movies, and games and I want to be able to enjoy all of those things with one simple device.

Those are standard requirements, but here are yours:

-Vista 64-bit compatible
-AC-3 / DTS multi-channel pass-through using DirectSound
-external or CardBus interface
-24-bit resolution minimum (to properly play back movies and high-res content)
-good DAC section for analog output
-good ADC section for recording

Combine them all and you won't find a solution.

 

[obobskivich]

the only issue you've got is Vista 64-bit compatable, the Firewire 410 will do everything you've listed, except Vista 64-bit, the 0404 will do everything you've listed, except AC-3/DTS, and the Firebox will do everything you've listed except ADC section (when I read the mic pres thing I was like lol wut, but realizing the OP wants to record a little bit, that actually does matter)

honestly you might consider switching to Vista 32-bit or XP Pro (OH GOD NOES, NOT CHANGING SOFTWARES!) in order to get to a more compatable and more stable base for drivers to work on, and then something like the Firewire 410 or 0404 will be much more suitable due to driver support

the X-Fi will prolly do everything you want, but the quality will be the hit against it, given that its like a $60 part, and you're comparing it to $200-$300 semi-pro recording interfaces

 

[kilgoretrout]

I think I might go with the X-Fi because at the very least it will serve as Digital Out for my laptop that supports AC-3/DTS passthrough so that I will not be limited to USB/Firewire DACs in the future. Will the X-Fi's line-out to Mini^3 provide a noticeable benefit over my current setup (on-board HEADPHONE out to Mini^3)?

I can live without a good ADC. I could just get a separate device for recording, but it would be better if it was an all in one solution.

I like using Vista 64-bit because I have 4GB of RAM, and I need a 64-bit operating system to utilize all of it, but I suppose switching to 32-bit Vista and using the M-Audio FireWire 410 is a viable option as well. How does the 410's DAC compared to the Emu?

 

[TDRKZ]

Sorry this is a bit off topic. I'm a bit confused. If Emu 0404 forces ASIO then does that mean that only programs with ASIO will work? AKA Foobar will work fine but if I want to watch a youtube video or watching something with media player classic or even normal windows sounds flat out won't work???

So every time you want to do something without ASIO then you are forced to unplug your DAC?

*new to this so sorry if i am missing something*

 

[kilgoretrout]

No, the Emu requires ASIO for outputting to its digital outs. You don't need to output to its digital outs to listen.

If you want to use the Emu to connect to another DAC device, bypassing its own DAC, then you would need ASIO because of the limitation.

 

[TDRKZ]

Ok, thanks for clearing that up for me ^__^.

 

[obobskivich]

4GB of ram, blah-blah, unless you seriously NEED 4GB of RAM for whatever you're doing, the 3.5~ GB that 32-bit will recognize is more than suitable (and honestly theres nothing a laptop could possibly be doing very well that eats up all 4GB of RAM, they just dont have the power there)

i know, you want to get all the RAM you paid for, but if thats your only reason, I'd jump to 32-bit, and wait for everyone else in the world to catch up to 64-bit code (doubt it though, developers pretty much gave up/stopped caring, because its very expensive to make the transition (thats the general mood, basically, its going to be long, slow, and painful))

yeah, you'll lose ~500MB of RAM, but you'll gain MASSIVE amounts of software and hardware compatability back to your system

as far as the 410 vs the 0404, its something around 110 dB SNR, it can't sound *that* bad, given that its THD is nearly nonexistant, and its a competitive (and more expensive) product (yeah, i wish i could give you a lot more descript answer, I'm pretty certain I'm going to pull the trigger on one in a few weeks, if you haven't purchased by then, I'll be able to give more in-depth, but not against the 0404 (sorry, not buying two interfaces just to play around, lol))

 

[infinitesymphony]

Most of the M-Audio equipment seems to be using AKM chips. The 0404 USB uses the best currently-implemented AKM chip (AK4396), so the chip in the Firewire 410 can only be equivalent at best. It's true that the DAC chip is not everything and that other contributing factors might make one sound better than the other, but it's not easy to know without listening to one in your system.

Edit: The Firewire 410 uses the AKM AK4381 for line output and AK4355 for the headphone output. Both are significantly inferior to the AK4396 (ex. AK4381's 108 dB SNR vs. AK4396's 120 dB SNR).

 

[kilgoretrout]

Quote:

Originally Posted by obobskivich /img/forum/go_quote.gif 4GB of ram, blah-blah, unless you seriously NEED 4GB of RAM for whatever you're doing, the 3.5~ GB that 32-bit will recognize is more than suitable (and honestly theres nothing a laptop could possibly be doing very well that eats up all 4GB of RAM, they just dont have the power there) i know, you want to get all the RAM you paid for, but if thats your only reason, I'd jump to 32-bit, and wait for everyone else in the world to catch up to 64-bit code (doubt it though, developers pretty much gave up/stopped caring, because its very expensive to make the transition (thats the general mood, basically, its going to be long, slow, and painful)) yeah, you'll lose ~500MB of RAM, but you'll gain MASSIVE amounts of software and hardware compatability back to your system as far as the 410 vs the 0404, its something around 110 dB SNR, it can't sound *that* bad, given that its THD is nearly nonexistant, and its a competitive (and more expensive) product (yeah, i wish i could give you a lot more descript answer, I'm pretty certain I'm going to pull the trigger on one in a few weeks, if you haven't purchased by then, I'll be able to give more in-depth, but not against the 0404 (sorry, not buying two interfaces just to play around, lol))

I haven't had many issues with compatibility until now really, but I suppose I could switch to 32-bit Vista if it was needed. If I did that I could use the M-Audio Transit to output to another DAC. What DACs are there that compare in price to the Firewire 410? How does the DAC section of the Firewire 410 compare to them?

Let me know when you pull the trigger. I'd like to know how it goes.

Quote:

Originally Posted by infinitesymphony /img/forum/go_quote.gif Most of the M-Audio equipment seems to be using AKM chips. The 0404 USB uses the best currently-implemented AKM chip (AK4396), so the chip in the Firewire 410 can only be equivalent at best. It's true that the DAC chip is not everything and that other contributing factors might make one sound better than the other, but it's not easy to know without listening to one in your system. Edit: The Firewire 410 uses the AKM AK4381 for line output and AK4355 for the headphone output. Both are significantly inferior to the AK4396 (ex. AK4381's 108 dB SNR vs. AK4396's 120 dB SNR).

Why would that difference in SNR between the two devices even matter? Though I'm not an audio professional, I suspect that it will be inaudible. Besides all of my music is ripped from CDs, which is limited to 96dB above the noise. Are there are differences between the chips?