Elekit TU-8200 DX Headphone/Speaker Amp Review
Dec 28, 2017 at 5:03 AM Post #812 of 1,441
Hi

I'm thinking about tube rolling and I wonder if the 807 tube is the best choice? Ore are there more superior tubes out there?

Cossor 807 is not "the best", but a decent choice, especially with stock power transformer. The best require power transformer upgrade. EL12 spez is what has been in my amp for a long time, driven by E80CC. TT21 or genuine GEC KT88 driven by E80CC produce special sound too, but this little amp can't sustain the resulting thermal load comfortably. Same goes for various genuine 6550 like Tungsol, GE, Sylvania. With EL12 spez things run cool continuously. Genuine GEC KT66 has great sound too. Some of these tubes will cost you more than the amp itself though, so I doubt there will be much "rolling". EL12 spez used to be reasonably priced but the source in Germany dried up for about half a year now. Same goes for Dutch E80CC- used to be plentiful just a year ago, much more scarce now. E80CC will last for very long time though, so grab some while you can and enjoy.
 
Dec 28, 2017 at 5:07 AM Post #813 of 1,441
Dec 28, 2017 at 9:14 PM Post #815 of 1,441
Thanks Dimu for answer. The 807 adapters will take some time before they arrive.

I saw some E80CC tubes on Tubeampdoctor pretty cheap; 71,50 euros but it's unclear what brand they are selling.

Those are three Dutch tubes pictured on Tubeampdoctor web page. The price is relatively high for just one tube (or maybe it's ok considering that price includes VAT). That crazy $676 price was not for a regular E80CC, it was the rare "pinched waist" version. I used to buy E80CC for $80 to $90 per pair a year ago.
 
Dec 29, 2017 at 10:12 PM Post #816 of 1,441
NOS Dutch E80CC tubes can still be grabbed from eBay under $100 for a pair if one is patient. I ordered mine from Germany last time in September and it took a couple of weeks to arrive - Valvo-labeled Heerlen E80CC ones. There are also some Amperex E80CC which could be made in the US (silver pins) but these should sound about the same as Heerlen ones based on online reviews. The E80CC will be hard to get at this price pretty soon anywhere.

NOS Valvo E80CC and RCA blackplates are what I use for the last 4 months without tube rolling and am pretty happy about the sound. Recently changed my DAC to a Non-oversampling TDA1451-based one and it was a huge sound upgrade too. Still waiting for the Femto-clock board to arrive from Eastern Europe, it has been 3 weeks almost and still waiting. Holidays.
 
Jan 17, 2018 at 5:00 AM Post #817 of 1,441
I've been planning to play with vinyl from the time I ordered TU-8200 and TU-8500 but never had time to actually do it. At about the same time I ordered Burson discrete op amps for the phono preamp section of TU-8500. So I finally cracked TU-8500 open to stick in those opamps. Looks interesting next to the preamp tubes:
IMG_8285.jpg
 
Jan 18, 2018 at 4:09 AM Post #818 of 1,441
While the preamp was opened I measured Mullard CV4024 tubes that I have in there, and also checked E80CC that I've been using in the amp. Both show considerable drop in transconductance. These tubes do wear, even though E80CC is supposed to be 10,000 hours rated. And my EL12 spez are showing some drop in plate current but nothing crazy. I figure my tubes are probably good for another year but sometime in 2019 I'll have to swap at least some of those tubes out due to wear. If I don't roll them for fun sooner that is :)
 
Jan 19, 2018 at 9:17 PM Post #819 of 1,441
So I got bored and popped CV8286 (TT21 which is GEC KT88 with top anode) into the amp. Bass is much better controlled and volume on speakers can be pushed much higher while sounds stays clean. It is actually enough clean power for a big room even with LS50. But compared to EL12 spez many recordings sound too bright. While it is fun and pleasure to listen to these tubes, I think EL12 spez will go back into the amp at the end of the day...

I am planning another upgrade project for this amp- will see if I can improve B+ rectification. Need to order a few parts and then spend some time measuring, upgrading and then re-measuring. And this is where TT21 will be useful as it loads B+ more than smaller tubes.
 
Feb 15, 2018 at 3:07 AM Post #821 of 1,441
Hi, I am new here but would like to share the modification that we designed for the TU-8200. The idea was to lift the performance and musicality of the amp, in a simple and inexpensive way. We go further than just exchanging recommended parts like caps, VR and tubes, we really change the electrical design, though in a safe way and considering the power supply capacity.
Elekit's products are absolutely fine as they come. The designs are good and so are all components. You won't find any imbalance there. The price/quality ratio is simply great. Because of this we think they are nice platforms to do something interesting with. So what did we do ?
- Although very commonly applied, also in high-end amplifiers, we find the 12AU7 sounding somewhat dull, and often the circuits around it are a bit slow and therefor the powertubes aren't driven well. We use NOS 6n6p tubes, which are rarely applied, but in fact combine good performance with a great musical quality. The 6n6p tube is a different type than the 12AU7, and therefore we rewired the tube sockets to the PCB. This implies that afterwards no other type of pre tube can be used !
- We power the 6n6p tubes in the anode circuit with a cascade type Constant Current Supply, using 10M45 mosfets. This brings 3 great advantages:
1. It gives a lower load to the 6n6p tube which results in a very good linearity.
2. There is a lower output impedance and by that a lower Miller effect in the power-tubes. This is an excellent way to drive the power-tubes !
3. And last but not least, it improves the PSRR significantly, which results in much less distortion and better sound quality.
- We took out the overall feedback system. Overall feedback makes an amplifier sound dull.
- We added local feedback on the power-tube 6L6GC.
- We took out the switching possibility for triode/ ultra linear/ pentode mode, and fixed it to pentode mode. This gives the maximal power output for this amplifier. With our modification, the pentode tubes behaves like a linear triode because of the local feedback. This type of set-up is called super triode connection amplification. This combines the higher pentode output power capacity with the more musical ability of a triode.
- In this configuration, we found that the original Electro Harmonix 6L6 tubes can outcompete other possible tubes like the KT88, in this amplifier. The combination 6n6p + 6L6 is fixed. Tube rolling with other type power tubes is not advised because the voltages and currents will not match or not be sufficient. And as already mentied it is certainly not possible to apply any other pre tube. The EH 6L6GC is in the top of new 6L6 tubes. Of course, with NOS tubes like the Sylvania or even the Philips 6L6, the amplifier will give an even more refined sound. Output power : 2x 6,5W
- We upgraded the coupling capacitors, but we don’t see this as a tuning matter; we don’t apply typical ‘audiophile’ (expensive) capacitors. Those often come with certain sound characters and colorization. To us, the components in this function need to be neutral, and we have spent many time and effort to source for this quality. We have a rather unique process of defining the sound quality or grade of neutrality when comparing capacitors.
 
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Feb 24, 2018 at 10:24 PM Post #825 of 1,441
what is the best upgrade output transformer for tu-8200 ? Landahl ?

Lundahl is one of the more famous brands that supply excellent transformers, though I doubt that it will be worth the money to replace the original transformers that come with the kit. EKJ realizes very well that these are key components and they provide good ones. Replacing them with Lundahl or similar brands will easily cost you USD500-600, but will probably not make that a big difference. Personally I don't see the point in doing this while there are other changes thinkable with significant effect but against much lower costs. Apart from that, replacing original components with more 'audiophile' ones is more a matter of taste and preference than in an objective way making it better. It's a very subjective matter like changing capacitors; choosing for either Lundahl. Sowter, James, Iso Tango, Tamura, MagneQuest/Peerless and the like. They are all good but i.m.h.o. you can't really rank them.
 
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