[24Bit]

I apologize for whining, I don't do this often but I needed a stress relief on this one.  Haha. 
 
I'm beyond upset by eBay's new policies.  I've been a registered seller since 2004 but haven't sold anything since mid 2012.  Apparently, since then a lot of changes were made.  The first and most shocking was that someone can use the Buy It Now feature and not be required to pay for up to a week or something silly like that.  There was no information on this during the listing process in the description of what Buy It Now does and how it works.  I sold something last week on eBay and the buyer used the Buy It Now function, but did not pay until today.  That didn't bother me at first, he seemed trustworthy enough and I was patient, but stressed out about it with Black Friday looming.  I had always set my buyers requirements to a certain amount of feedback needed for you to be able to bid on my items.  New users were banned.  Somehow, this buyer slipped through the system, I thought, as he has +1 on his feedback list.  I actually didn't notice until today anyway due to knowing my buyer requirements were set a while back. Turns out eBay did away with that as well in the past year or so.  
 
So, the buyer makes his payment at long last, but whats this?! Payment Status: Pending?  What on Earth?  I check my paypal account and notice nothing at all in my account, no pending status, totally empty as it was prior to listing the item.   The payment he made was being with held until he received the item, and then a 7 day waiting period after that was confirmed.  Also, it turns out SOMEHOW, as if by magic, this buyer sent the payment to an old paypal email address that was originally set years ago, but removed neigh two years ago.  I deleted that name and added a new email account and even sold a few things with a new primary address.  So, now the payment is floating in space somewhere and neither eBay nor Paypal knows where it went or how it happened.  They told me to re-activate and add that old address to the paypal account, so I did and voila the money "appeared" in my paypal account...but was pending and being withheld.  After speaking to an Indian rep ( I'm so sorry, I'm not bias'ed or anything but I couldn't understand a word she said and had to ask for a new rep with better English skills, once the new rep came on, she was equally as bad so I toughed it out and stuck with her. ) She took ages to explain what happened and put me on hold for almost 20 minutes.  She told me that Paypal was in charge of releasing the funds and told me to call Paypal.  So I did.  Paypal told me eBay is in charge of that, I was a bit annoyed and said oh no, you aren't getting off that easy lets do a triple call with eBay.  I know you can do that.  So the agent said Sure.  After another 15 minutes on hold, the eBay rep politely insulted the Paypal rep for being dimwitted and lying to me about a few other personal account related issues that I'd rather not get into here, but he flat out lied and the eBay rep took my side on it.  The paypal rep hung up.
 
Now talking to the eBay rep, he tells me that he is sorry eBay misled me and that there were so many problems with this transaction but there isn't anything he can do about it.  The buyer paid in full for hefty shipping charges on my item AND lives in another country.  It would take 2-3 weeks to get to him, easy.  Ebay told me that their new policy is to withhold sellers funds until the buyer approves the item and makes sure it is as described...but I have to pay out of pocket for the immense shipping charges for the very large thing I was selling.  I have a +150 rating with all positive feedback, yet I guess I'm less trustworthy as a seller, than a BRAND NEW EBAY USER who receives an item and has total control over my funds, as well as to cancel the auction and to approve of the entire transaction itself.  I have to put my trust in the brand new user and come up with the funds to pay for the shipping costs, wait for it to arrive in another country on the other side of the world, wait for him to approve it and hope he doesn't want a refund, then wait 7 days after that for the payment to be approved.  This is what the eBay rep said the timeline would look like.  
 
Scary things that Paypal and eBay had no comment on during my barrage of questions:
 
1.) What happens if the buyer demands a refund?  Since I do not have the funds in my paypal account, where does the refund come from?  
-implied that I would have to shell out the entire refund out of my bank account since my paypal balance was empty and that the payment he made had not cleared and was not approved by him.  This made no sense, but this is how the rep described it.  Since my funds were being withheld and that i had no money in my paypal account, the refund will come from MY account instead of the original payment he made.  This isn't likely, but the rep pretty much summed it up that way that if I didn't have the money to cover the entire transaction in my account and if the buyer wants a refund inbetween this waiting period that the funds are withheld on, the refund comes directly out of my pocket.  After the waiting period is up, I would be reimbursed, then that money would instantly go back to paypal.  Nothing made any sense around this.
 
2. ) What happens if he does not agree to cancel the transaction even though he used a Buy It Now function and paid many days later and has no trust value to his feedback?
-stated that I have to pay the 10% fee if I decide not to ship it to him. 
 
3.) Why doesn't eBay protect me from a seller who lies about the condition on arrival? 
-they dont care
 
4.) Why doesn't eBay protect sellers or buyers in the comments feedback from liars and things that aren't true?
-they don't care, its perfectly fine for you to receive a great product as described and then say the seller has AIDS, is racist, was insulting, is a pedophile or anything you want.  You can give negative feedback even if the seller or buyer is the nicest person and did everything right and goes above and beyond to help you and make you happy.  Ebay does not care what you input into the feedback area and I was told that the feedback function is a separate entity that is not part of EBAY, it is a thing on its own and fully protects eBay by LAW with regard to eBay not being responsible for anything said inside of the feedback areas.  Ebay is immune to anything and will be exempt from any lawsuits or any legal action if there is a problem, if someone lies or says something potentially serious that isnt true.
 
There were a lot of other questions and the eBay rep was calm and nice about it all, but remained firm that eBay is not responsible for any problems eBay causes.  You are responsible for all the problems eBay causes.  Again sorry for the rant, I just had to get this off my head.  So frustrating, will never use eBay again.  

 

[billybob_jcv]

Wow. Well, one question I have is: Does Paypal actually debit the buyer's account and then hold the payment to you? If they do - then that means they are making the float on those funds for that entire time. Sum that float over millions of transactions, and Paypal could be making HUGE money for doing absolutely nothing.

It was only a matter of time before the lawyers and accountants totally f*d'up the relatively simple process of making an online transaction. Our species is doomed. I hope the squid that rise to replace H. Sapiens can do a better job...

 

[mvrk10256]

Ebay has really gone from a good way to sell stuff internationally to a cesspool of rules and junk. I used to do pretty good business both buying and selling on there. But 10% of purchase price is way too much to pay for their service. Secondly they rape sellers. 
 
I stopped using it. 

 

[24Bit]

  Ebay has really gone from a good way to sell stuff internationally to a cesspool of rules and junk. I used to do pretty good business both buying and selling on there. But 10% of purchase price is way too much to pay for their service. Secondly they rape sellers. 
 
I stopped using it. 

 

Wow. Well, one question I have is: Does Paypal actually debit the buyer's account and then hold the payment to you? If they do - then that means they are making the float on those funds for that entire time. Sum that float over millions of transactions, and Paypal could be making HUGE money for doing absolutely nothing.

It was only a matter of time before the lawyers and accountants totally f*d'up the relatively simple process of making an online transaction. Our species is doomed. I hope the squid that rise to replace H. Sapiens can do a better job...

 
eBay said the new practice is to protect buyers and sellers.  Looks like buyer protection to me and tells the seller to jump in a lake.  

 

[Audio-Omega]

Are you saying payment gets withheld until buyer is satisfied ?

 

[24Bit]

Yes sir.  Precisely.  You also have to pay for the shipping costs, when prior I transferred the funds from paypal to my bank account or credit card/cash to actually pay for the shipping.  Now, you have to shell out for the shipping costs prior to actually receiving the funds.  I learned today that you have to meet a certain number of sales before this is lifted.  You'd think I'd have enough, but I guess not.  Either way, the Buyer has almost total control over everything.  I called a few different reps today and all of them gave me a different story as to why my funds were being withheld for that long.  One said it was a matter of how many sales I've made in total, another said it was a matter of sales I've made recently ( which was only 1 sale in the 2012 year ), another said it was a site wide policy that all funds for sales will be withheld to all sellers until the buyer approves.  That last one is what the first Paypal Rep and Ebay Rep that I could hardly understand said to me.  Every rep had no explanation for allowing someone to use a Buy It Now feature and then pay up to a week or so later.  I bring that up because as a seller you have to pay a fee for using the Buy It Now feature...it is incredibly misleading and broken.  Buyer uses Buy It Now, buyer pays 5-7 days later, Seller pay a fee if the buyer used the Buy It Now.  Seller ships the item prior to receiving the funds to pay for shipping, Buyer has a grace period to approve the items condition and finalize the sale.  Up to 7 days after Buyer approves, you receive the payment.  Haha.  So stupid. 
 
Either way, I don't really care.  10% for auction fees, poor customer service, no site improvements in 10 years, removal of chat support, ridiculous feedback policies and almost no protection for sellers equates to me vowing to never use the site again.  I feel better that I got this off my mind  

 

[Mr.Sneis]

Things are getting really hairy in order to sell things on the Internet these days, this forum included. Sorry to hear you had such a bad experience.
 
I just got am email today letting me know I lost my ebay power seller status, I have been avoiding ebay as much as possible because I feel like I'm getting completely ripped off from every angle... buyers are cheaping out, fees are higher ebay + paypal, protection doesn't really feel that protective, etc etc.  I try to write in all my auctions that payment must be made within 24 hours of auction close or I will relist the item, it doesn't always work but it has helped.
 
You should also be able to flat out refuse international too, it sucks because you lose some visibility but is the hassle even worth it?

 

[24Bit]

I wrote that in my auction as well, but there are no rules that say a buyer must do so or listen to any instructions listed in the description.  My buyer said he doesn't have to but promised he would make the payment before the deadline.  There is an option to refuse International buyers during the listing process.  I clicked mine off and someone in Russia politely asked if I would ship it there.  I said sure, but only if you are paying full price for the shipping costs which were extensive.  He paid them...but then everything went downhill after that haha.  
 
The item cannot be relisted if someone indeed buys it and doesn't pay on time as per your directions.  If you say payment must be made in 24 hours, they don't have to listen.  So if they do win your auction by whatever method, they must be contacted and approve the canceling of the auction.  Only then can you officially relist it. The Buyer retains full authority over most things, you have almost no say so as a seller.  If that person who took his time paying disagrees to canceling the auction and demands the item, you have only one option: Refund him via paypal when he makes the payment and then also Pay the 10% auction fee.  After that, you are free to relist and do whatever you want.  You will also likely get negative feedback because the Buyer did in fact make a payment, so the auction went to him and he is free to berate you in the feedback section.

 

[Mr.Sneis]

If buyer misses that payment window you can refund the payment if they send later, it then pends for 3-5 days which is somewhat satisfying.
 
You can cancel the transaction post close/refund as well getting you back the closing fees but it is a PITA and as you say you risk negative feedback.
 
The world is full of scum bags unfortunately and the honest ones are still finishing last.

 

[24Bit]

Right.  If hey miss the payment deadline, the seller starts getting more authority over what to do at that point.  If he doesn't pay on time, the seller can opt to give them time or relist it normally, all fees will be reset to 0.   Still, having learned about how the feedback system works now, I'll be avoiding ebay in the future.  10% fee's now...crazy.

 

[Mr.Sneis]

in my head i feel like its closer to 15-20%.... basically anything expensive you really get boned on.

 

[Audio-Omega]

EBay Australia might be different. I never had to do anything else after paying a seller.

 

[billybob_jcv]

Seems like the market is ripe for some disruptive technology. I predicted back when eBay bought Paypal that evil would be the ultimate result - one company now has complete control over the transaction and the flow of funds. That's never good!

What if you use eBay for listing, but NOT Paypal - and put a link to google checkout in your listing? Can you still do that, or is Paypal now a requirement?

 

[Mr.Sneis]

I don't even know.  You guys remember that 40 year old virgin movie?  No way in hell a business can be run utilizing ebay as a platform anymore, it's just not viable anymore.