[Captain]

Quote:

Originally Posted by lan Also the PSU1 is not really a great power supply. Using it with the Solo amp, I've had a hard time to tell the differences between various sources. So for you to be able tell such large differences is just out of this world for me in my experience. But like I said, it could just be the way we are quantifying things. Maybe a "3%" change is large to you. *shrug*

May be as you say the difference I notice is small to you, but I sure think it is there. I also think that the WNA amp would pick up a lot more differences then the Solo. I owned the Solo before the WNA, and I can not stress how much of a improvement it is over the Solo, in a totally different league. It would be lot more sensitive to changes.

What I will do is put the 0404 back in again and keep you posted.

Later

Cap

 

[lan]

I am in the process of changing the PSU1 power supply and it made a huge difference to the Solo. The power and power supply are generally very important sections to any electronics. I would imagine it might holding back your WNA also. So if you thought it was revealing already, wait till you upgrade that.

I think telling the difference amongst jitter is hard because many things can get in the way. That why in my test between the 0404 and 1212m, I use a digital amplifier so there are less conversions in the signal path.

 

[commando]

Can anyone compare the analog out of the 0404 vs the 1212?

 

[Spoonfed]

Quote:

Originally Posted by JDUBS Good point on listing the DAC I expect to use. Ahhh, if I only knew! I doubt it will be a DAC-1 (so my DAC will NOT likely be "impervious" to jitter). Still doing some research in that area. I finally got my speakers nailed down, though. Polk Audio RTI-28's with upgraded murphyblaster.com crossovers. I've also got a pair of Yamaha YST-SW205. These things are awesome, and if you can track one (or more) down, I highly recommend them (do a search on audiocircle.com). They go deep and are super fast. A great combination to use with my Panasonic digital amp. Thanks! -Jim

Jim,

You mention your "digital amp". Is it a panasonic XR10 XR25 XR30 XR50 or if lucky XR45 ?

In the above cases if you are outputing to loudspeakers as it seems there is NO DAC !!! Getting a DAC and feeding the panny an analogue signal will only degrade the sound even if it is a $$$$$$$ DAC.

The entire point of the digital panny recievers is to feed them digital SPDIF this is feed directly to the TI Equibit amp section which interprets it into the PVM signal which is amplified. The only analogue stage is at the speaker connects.
Think of the amp section as a "POWER DAC" if you will

I have 'read' about people "upsamping" music. Do most agree it is a sound improvement or not really? On can upsample to 24/192 and feed this over SPDIF to the Panny and it actually accepts/locks/detects this upsampled signal and again is output pure digital to the speaker posts.

Regarding your speakers. I can't comment on Yammy's as have only heard some floor standers.... cheap nasty sounded poor..... the polks i think would probably sound bright with the panny due to the type of tweeter.

What "$" do you have to spend on each pair of speakers?

Finally people do modfiy the panny's, particuarly the XR45 which is "seen" as the best sounding due to a few reasons... partly its volume control which actually works on regualating the voltage on the rails to the amp section somehow.

The 'modded' improvements are said to be substantial.

Some interesting threads on modded pannys vs high end 2ch separates gear
http://www.audiocircle.com/circles/v...er=asc&start=0
and
http://www.audiocircle.com/circles/v...r=asc&start=30

and a little comparo of a std XR45 vs a valve and integrated
http://www.stereotimes.com/amp040104.shtm


My 45 is feed dig Coax from Revo 5.1. I have actually done some A/B testing of my home made RG6 Quad sheilded SPDIF cable vs an echimann cables model http://www.eichmanncables.com/digital_cable/index.html
and to my suprise (was in the "bits is bits camp) the panny is resolving enuf to picked noticable differences......... im not sure which one is "right" but hehe

I decided on the Panny after hearing MUCH higher end AVR's such as Arcam AVR300 and Denon 3805..... my "old" model a Denon 1602 and the Panny is better than ALL of them.

 

[Distroyed]

I dont understand how one bit-perfect digital out can sound different from another; the only things that affect such a signal are the power supply, jitter, and interconnects. This is the whole point of a digital connection; it's the same signal (almost) regardless of the situation (until it hits the dac). The dac1 eliminates the jitter. Your mods dont sound like they touched the power supply (or did I misread?), and you didnt change your cables. So... What?

 

[Captain]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Distroyed I dont understand how one bit-perfect digital out can sound different from another; the only things that affect such a signal are the power supply, jitter, and interconnects. This is the whole point of a digital connection; it's the same signal (almost) regardless of the situation (until it hits the dac). The dac1 eliminates the jitter. Your mods dont sound like they touched the power supply (or did I misread?), and you didnt change your cables. So... What?

I don't Know. I am going to try out the 0404 again and pay a lot of attention to the Patchmix/foobar setting. This can be the only variables., and may be the case as said before.

Will keep you posted

Cap

 

[Captain]

Sorry I eat humble pie. It was my settings.

So now I a heavly modded E-Mu 1212 for sale.

Later

Cap

 

[lan]

Just curious what was different in your settings?

 

[Captain]

Quote:

Originally Posted by lan Just curious what was different in your settings?

To be honest I can not remember, but I know I have it right this time. I do have one question though comparing the 0404 to the 1212, the 0404 has a cable running off it to each in-put out-put plug. This cable is not going to be the quality as the glass optical so is going to corrupt the signal going out. Where as the 1212 you plug straight in the card. Could this be a issue - may be ? It could just be me listing to hard, but their is a tiny bit more harshness to the 0404 O so slight, but this time it could just be my imagination.

Thanks

Cap

 

[lan]

I don't think that's much of an issue. As you hear the difference is very small if any. It's small enough it may not be audible on other people's systems. A modded 0404 will for sure be better than stock 1212m in this regard.

 

[JDUBS]

Spoonfed

To answer your questions, yes my Panisonic XR-50 is fed a digital signal....thus the question I posed. I understand its strengths and weeknesses in this regard. I'm just looking for the best computer-based transport I can get my hand on. I only have a Sonica at this point.

I have modded (Dennis Murphy designed cross-overs) RTI-28s that I'm using as monitors. The Yamahas are subwoofers. Please see audiocircle.com for much praise relating to their speed, depth, and overall musicality. A real bargain, that is unfortunately no longer offered by Yamaha.

I haven't fed the Panasonic an upsampled signal yet, so I can't comment on the effect it has. I typically do like upsampling based on what I've heard from my previous Empirical Audio P-3A.

Thanks for your (and everyone else's) input. I'm still not sure what to go with at this point. Its a tough decision!

-Jim