[jiiteepee]

Looks like final version of Vista drivers for E-MU 0202, 0404 and Tracker Pre USB is being released: E-MU Systems - Support

Also, there is a firmware update available.

Download links:
(E-MU: Downloads

New drivers and firmware upgrade for MAC:
E-MU: Downloads


jiitee

 

[bigwormie]

Thank you for posting this!

My 0404usb and hd650's were on the shelf due to the fact that I am running vista x64. I had not taken the time to hook everything back up over the past 6 months so your post reminded me to do so. I am once again getting great enjoyment out of my music. For the past 6 months I have been using a mickey mouse rig using my hd600's (no offense 600's).

 

[cer]

There seems to be a significant difference compared to the old drivers. I'm using 0202 USB on XP32 and after upgrading the drivers I found out that the Windows master volume (and balance) control now works. Most importantly - it also works when using ASIO. Should I be worried? Resampling even with ASIO?

 

[sejarzo]

Quote:

Originally Posted by cer /img/forum/go_quote.gif There seems to be a significant difference compared to the old drivers. I'm using 0202 USB on XP32 and after upgrading the drivers I found out that the Windows master volume (and balance) control now works. Most importantly - it also works when using ASIO. Should I be worried? Resampling even with ASIO?

Are you absolutely sure that you have your playback application is still set to use ASIO and that it hasn't somehow reverted to waveout or DS for some reason?

I upgraded to the latest driver/firmware pack on my XPSP2 machine last week, and just launched Foobar 0.8.3>ASIO>0404 USB and ran the Windows master volume/balance controls.....and the volumes out of the 0404 USB headamp jack stayed constant. Nothing else odd happened, other than my motherboard speaker beeped a few times toward the end of the process.

My son had (and may still have) a problem with his M-Audio Transit that is similar to what you report, though--the Win volume control still appears to work even when his playback apps are set to use the ASIO driver.

 

[cer]

Quote:

Originally Posted by sejarzo /img/forum/go_quote.gif Are you absolutely sure that you have your playback application is still set to use ASIO and that it hasn't somehow reverted to waveout or DS for some reason?

I'm absolutely sure - tested with Winamp ASIO plugin and Cubase set to ASIO. I already reverted back to the old drivers - master volume control disappeared.

 

[sejarzo]

When you reverted back to the old drivers, did you do that via a rollback in Device Manager or by running the old driver installer?

I had some problems with mine at the meet last Saturday in Chicago when I tried to run it via a notebook that I had neglected to upgrade to the latest driver--so I was running the new driver with the old firmware. Playback would stutter after a while, and when I got home and ran the new installer on the notebook, all was well.

I can't attribute my problems 100% to that, though--Ray Samuels brought over a Predator and I had to change Foobar to run DS rather than ASIO and change some other settings to get rid of some stuttering, which never seemed to go away until I disconnected the USB drive that holds my FLAC files.

I wish I understood all aspects of Windows and its audio capabilities better, because all too often I end up with solution but I'm not entirely sure of why it works, you know?

 

[cer]

I ran the old installer and just kept the new firmware. Everything works nice this way. Wondering though does the new driver degrade sound in any manner. I can't figure out any other explanation to the working master volume - the new driver must route ASIO through DS. Which of course means resampling. Wish somebody proves me wrong.

 

[infinitesymphony]

Time to ask E-MU themselves... Maybe this is specific to the 0202 USB? Though I'm not sure why it would be...

If you installed over the top of the previous drivers, you might consider uninstalling your current drivers and reinstalling the new ones.

 

[jenghanHsieh]

Quote:

Originally Posted by infinitesymphony /img/forum/go_quote.gif Time to ask E-MU themselves... Maybe this is specific to the 0202 USB? Though I'm not sure why it would be... If you installed over the top of the previous drivers, you might consider uninstalling your current drivers and reinstalling the new ones.

IMHO, ASIO is just another 'driver', technically it seems possible to link the output volume control to the windows Master Volume.

I've tried ASIO playback on my updated 0404USB, and yes, the playback volume does change with the Master Volume setting, but the 'Wave Out' DOES NOT affect the volume... after I switched to DirectSound, both the Master and 'Wave Out' control the output volume.

So, I think this is by design, and it may not be a problem if the 0404USB driver is implemented properly.

 

[infinitesymphony]

It seems to me that this was the case when I used the 0404 USB, too... I haven't had it hooked up to the computer for a while. I'll install the newest firmware and drivers and report back. I can't remember testing the Windows master volume slider when using ASIO, but I'll definitely test it before and after the update.

I agree, if this functionality was introduced by E-MU, it was probably designed not to affect sound quality.

 

[sejarzo]

Quote:

Originally Posted by jenghanHsieh /img/forum/go_quote.gif IMHO, ASIO is just another 'driver', technically it seems possible to link the output volume control to the windows Master Volume.

But ASIO is supposed to bypass the layer at which the Windows master volume control resides, or at least that's what I have been led to believe for a long time....now I am unsure!

Quote:

Originally Posted by jenghanHsieh /img/forum/go_quote.gif I've tried ASIO playback on my updated 0404USB, and yes, the playback volume does change with the Master Volume setting, but the 'Wave Out' DOES NOT affect the volume... after I switched to DirectSound, both the Master and 'Wave Out' control the output volume. So, I think this is by design, and it may not be a problem if the 0404USB driver is implemented properly.

Quote:

Originally Posted by infinitesymphony /img/forum/go_quote.gif It seems to me that this was the case when I used the 0404 USB, too... I haven't had it hooked up to the computer for a while. I'll install the newest firmware and drivers and report back. I can't remember testing the Windows master volume slider when using ASIO, but I'll definitely test it before and after the update. I agree, if this functionality was introduced by E-MU, it was probably designed not to affect sound quality.

You guys are right, though.....my bad.....I normally never single click on the speaker icon in systray to bring up the simple master volume, I double click to get the whole "mixer panel" which doesn't show a master volume control for the 0404 USB. If I single click to get just the master, or go into Sounds and Audio Devices in XP Control Panel on the Volume tab, those sliders do control the volume when running Foobar and ASIO.

I think this is evidence that E-MU's implementation of ASIO support is indeed via a "wrapper" that operates in conjunction with the WDM/KS driver as jiiteepee proposed in this thread, starting at the post below:

http://www.head-fi.org/forums/f46/as...ml#post3750277

He included several great diagrams in post #30 farther down the page that show "native ASIO" using proprietary controls and dll's all the way to the device, but that "ASIO as WDM/KS wrapper" shares the same mini-port driver as would be used by any app using the waveout or DS API's.

However, nothing in that thread indicates to me why the XP master volume control should work, because I thought that resided at the kmixer level........

So, jiiteepee, care to enlighten us further about how this all works?????

I still think that there's no way that a software volume control can work without decreasing resolution, so this does concern me--though I always run Windows volume controls maxed out, or that's my intent. I did check, and the volume slider in WMP appears to control only within WMP, because adjusting that volume slider doesn't affect the master or wave slider settings shown in the mixer panel. I don't know if any other app somehow adjusts the master volume rather than some control "upstream" of the master.

 

[jenghanHsieh]

Quote:

Originally Posted by sejarzo /img/forum/go_quote.gif [...] I still think that there's no way that a software volume control can work without decreasing resolution, so this does concern me--though I always run Windows volume controls maxed out, or that's my intent. [...] I don't know if any other app somehow adjusts the master volume rather than some control "upstream" of the master.

I'm no windows driver expert that I've only took a basic course on embedded OS architecture years ago.

So I'm also curious about how the ASIO share the volume setting with the master volume control.

The I/O of the EMU0404 USB is 24 bits, so it can lower the volume of CD quality playback without sacrificing a bit for there are 8 bits of digital headroom for the 16bits original data ( the maximum output level is always -0db ).

 

[jiiteepee]

Hmm... AFAIK, the streamed audio data does not go 'through' the windows mixer applet but, kmixer only steers the hardware master volume control circuit found in (every) sound card controller . This means there can't be degradation in quality because of you be able to control volume through windows mixer applet. Does the level have some effect in quality ... maybe but that's a hardware related matter.

If you remove the kmixer from system (through device manager) then, there is nothing that makes the audio data stream path different from what it was with kmixer ... volume control in hardware (maybe) just settles to 100% ... not so nice side-effect would be in this case that control for I/O's is then lost (I suppose) totally. Maybe there are some ASIO implementations (IIRC, RME FF800 as for an example could be one example of this kind system ...) that can control I/O's even w/o kmixer present but, as said, that wouldn't have effect for audio quality.

jiitee

 

[cer]

After a slight bit of testing the master volume control which came with the new drivers, seems to work on "analogue" level rather than digital. As said here before, the Wave slider does not affect volume level, when using ASIO nor do any other Windows sounds work when using ASIO. Also, there is a hint from the master volume control itself - when I adjusted it to the lowest possible level, there was still a discernable signal coming through my amp and speakers. With a software control this would seem rather strange.
Maybe just a nice new feature then. Of course the best quality is always achieved with the volume control maxed out, no matter the technology.
Then again, a suggestion to the E-MU software developers - a new feature list on the website would be nice.

 

[sejarzo]

Quote:

Originally Posted by cer /img/forum/go_quote.gif .... Also, there is a hint from the master volume control itself - when I adjusted it to the lowest possible level, there was still a discernable signal coming through my amp and speakers. With a software control this would seem rather strange.

Yes, same behavior here, and it does seem strange.