[mikechai]

Quote:

Originally Posted by stiben I bought it from the US for $290AU delivered. My local store has them for $530AU

How irony... That's what we call "price gouging".

 

[Wodgy]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zoide A slight tangent: Today I was trying to A/B my Sonica->Piccolo->PPA->2X-S vs Toshiba SD-3960->PPA->2X-S.... And was very hard pressed to pin-point differences, and especially to formulate a "this is better than that" sort of opinion...

That might be because the Piccolo and the Toshiba SD-3960 use essentially the same DAC chip (not the same one, but both are very recent Burr-Brown DACs using the advanced segment architecture). The Piccolo has a better analog stage and power supply, but other than that both implementations are very similar.

 

[averydonovan]

Please don't post about the 0404 compared to the EWX until I get my 0404, Paul. Reading this stuff while I'm stuck with an AV-710 is cruel and unusual punishment

If the 0404 is really that good compared to the EWX then I'm going to be very happy. I really, really liked the EWX's sound and it had an uncanny synergy with my amp and cans and if the 0404 keeps that signature but refines it I will be quite pleased.

 

[saint.panda]

Paul, thanks for the very interesting write-up.

I've always stayed away from pc audio but I'm wondering how good the emu 0404 is compared to a standalone player, let's say a Nad 521 or something like that.

And is it really a night day difference between two soundcards? I have a Chaintech right now, which is good (better than the line out of a Sony D303 or D311) but not great (well, it's only $20). The Emu is 100 Euros here in Europe and I find it interesting that people prefer the cheaper Emu 0404 to the 1212.

I think the best thing about those more expensive sound cards is that they have RCA outs.

 

[Zoide]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wodgy That might be because the Piccolo and the Toshiba SD-3960 use essentially the same DAC chip (not the same one, but both are very recent Burr-Brown DACs using the advanced segment architecture). The Piccolo has a better analog stage and power supply, but other than that both implementations are very similar.

No wonder! I thought I was crazy... Hey, doesn't the 1212m have a BB DAC as well?

 

[pbirkett]

Quote:

Originally Posted by donavansmith If the 0404 is really that good compared to the EWX then I'm going to be very happy. I really, really liked the EWX's sound and it had an uncanny synergy with my amp and cans and if the 0404 keeps that signature but refines it I will be quite pleased.

Hi mate, sorry to punish you in this way

I think you will be happy with it. It has a similar basic sound signature, but I think the midrange is more forward, more detailed and clearer, while the bass has an added dose of welly. The treble is more refined, and the whole thing simply sounds clearer and more "real" to me.

On their own, the differences are relatively small, but as a collection of improvements, the end result is dynamic and impressive sounding. I'll be very surprised if you are disappointed.

Quote:

Originally Posted by saint.panda Paul, thanks for the very interesting write-up.

Your very welcome

Quote:

I've always stayed away from pc audio but I'm wondering how good the emu 0404 is compared to a standalone player, let's say a Nad 521 or something like that.

I will refrain from making any comparison, since I dont really have that said CD player at my disposal, but I dare say you wont be disappointed.

Quote:

And is it really a night day difference between two soundcards?

Now, in my defence, I dont believe I used to the phrase "night and day" in my review, I think someone else did, but lets just say that I find the difference "marked", and all for the better, all IMHO.

Oh all right then, it IS clearly better.

Quote:

The Emu is 100 Euros here in Europe and I find it interesting that people prefer the cheaper Emu 0404 to the 1212.

That can be put down to the different DACs. I have a theory about this, and that is the 0404 is perhaps intended more for users like me who simply use it as a source in an audio system. The 1212M uses a different DAC, but also has greater connectivity options, and is perhaps more geared towards the Pro market, with a more detailed, albeit analytical sound. I have always like the AKM sound, so it works well for me.

Quote:

I think the best thing about those more expensive sound cards is that they have RCA outs.

True, but lack of dedicated RCA outputs has not stopped the 0404 dismissing the EWX.

 

[Bayerdynamic]

Can vague generalizations be made on soundcard vs. standalone. e.g. 100$ emu 0404 against a good 200-300$ cdp (Pioneer 563 or Philips 963)? Or maybe Emu 0404 against a Toshiba?

 

[bigears]

Quote:

Originally Posted by gaboo I've upgraded from a tbsc to a 1212m. Yes there is difference in the details. Like night and day? LOL. The difference is IMO more like the last 10%.

gaboo ???

I want to buy your used Emu 1212m, since you dont have the ears to apreciate her...

May be you can make me a fair price?

Say... the price you payed for your turtle beach santa cruz soundcard,
more .... lets say...10% ?

Oh... i had the audigy and i have the emu 404, and a reasonable senn hd600 with and head amp.
So you can rest shure that the emu 1212m will be well taken care in my pci computer nest...

 

[lan]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zoide Today I was trying to A/B my Sonica->Piccolo->PPA->2X-S vs Toshiba SD-3960->PPA->2X-S.... And was very hard pressed to pin-point differences, and especially to formulate a "this is better than that" sort of opinion... Would the 0404 or 1212m vs. Piccolo difference be even more subtle or easier to notice than the Toshiba vs. Piccolo one?

To tell the difference between sources, you have to have resolving power before and after it in the chain. Recently I borrowed Jahn's modded 3960 and his Solo amp to see if I could tweak anything. I couldn't hear jack differences between ANY sources I had on hand which I knew was wrong. The bottleneck / homogenizer was the amp. It's certainly possible that in some peoples setup the amps, cables, headphones, etc. are being bottlenecks in telling differences between sources.

I personally don't bother try to compare sources unless I have many bases covered in the setup. What can I say I'm clinically insane and in the asylum for hearing differences in outlets.

I compared my tweaked 1820m with that modded 3960 and the 3960 lost. The best way I can describe the 3960 is that it is not offensive like other cheap digital equipment but it's not necessarily high performance.

 

[Zoide]

Quote:

Originally Posted by lan To tell the difference between sources, you have to have resolving power before and after it in the chain. Recently I borrowed Jahn's modded 3960 and his Solo amp to see if I could tweak anything. I couldn't hear jack differences between ANY sources I had on hand which I knew was wrong. The bottleneck / homogenizer was the amp. It's certainly possible that in some peoples setup the amps, cables, headphones, etc. are being bottlenecks in telling differences between sources. I personally don't bother try to compare sources unless I have many bases covered in the setup. What can I say I'm clinically insane and in the asylum for hearing differences in outlets. I compared my tweaked 1820m with that modded 3960 and the 3960 lost. The best way I can describe the 3960 is that it is not offensive like other cheap digital equipment but it's not necessarily high performance.

I think I know what you mean, but then again I'd have thought that the PPA as an amp and the 2X-S as headphones would not be bottlenecks. I'd say the previous explanation of the Piccolo and SD-3960 having similar DACs does seem to make more sense...

 

[lan]

I am talking more in general. Certainly if their DACs are similar then the sound will also be similar.

 

[Jahn]

btw i consider "it's not offensive" coming from lan's post to be high praise for my 3960 lol. before modding my Solo lan commented on the bottleneck being the solo, and not distinguishing between sources. now that the Solo is more resolving and less forgiving of offensive sources, i think my rig really is only waiting for one more big upgrade in the way future - when i can afford a universal player that does right by sacd, dvd-a, vids, redbook, etc...

 

[lini]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Iron_Dreamer JRC2068, nothing special, but the cards still sound pretty great nonetheless (same opamps as in the 1212M and 1820M).

Thanks for the info!

Greetings from Hannover!

Manfred / lini

 

[yeeyy]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zoide No wonder! I thought I was crazy... Hey, doesn't the 1212m have a BB DAC as well?

Nope. It use Cirrus Logic CS4398 DAC.

 

[gaboo]

Quote:

Originally Posted by bigears gaboo ??? I want to buy your used Emu 1212m, since you dont have the ears to apreciate her... May be you can make me a fair price? Say... the price you payed for your turtle beach santa cruz soundcard, more .... lets say...10% ? Oh... i had the audigy and i have the emu 404, and a reasonable senn hd600 with and head amp. So you can rest shure that the emu 1212m will be well taken care in my pci computer nest...

Dream on.

For most electronics performance is (unfortunately) not a linear function of price. Ever heard of dimishing returns?