DVD - What's happened to dolby?

[mbriant]

Quote:

You sound a little confused about the difference between Dolby Surround, Dolby Digital, and DTS, particularly because in your original post you claim your Rush DVD has a DTS track, and then later on you post that it has a DD 5.1 track instead.

Thanks for the dolby run down. I do know the difference between Dolby and DTS. And yes, I have used the term "Dolby surround" eroniously when my concern is simply the fact that the "Dolby" logo doesn't appear anywhere. Yes, in my first post I mentioned Rush having a DTS track but I corrected that a couple of posts later when I double checked and added Queen's DVD to the list. I never said Rush had a DD 5.1 track however. It has "5.1 surround" which when played, lights up as Dolby 3/2 on my receiver.

Whichever Dolby we're talking about, none of these 3 DVDs (which yes, are music videos which would explain PCM being standard), mentions dolby anywhere on them. From the multitude of dolby logos I've seen on past DVDs, it just seemed strange that dolby would be gone completely from a sample of 3 new releases and especially strange that "5.1 surround" would replace Dolby's logo on the Rush DVD. I'd always assumed that Dolby insisted their logo appear if any form of Dolby encoding was offered on a disc. This appears to be either wrong, or no longer the case. I'm wondering if we'll start seeing DVD non-music movie videos appearing without any mention of Dolby yet containing a "5.1 surround" track which uses the Dolby hardware decoder.

Quote:

Who knows why they didn't write "Dolby Digital" on the Rush DVD box? Who cares? It's still AC3 encoded.

I care. Ray Dolby cares. The employees, patent lawyers, and stockholders of Dolby Labs care. And I'm curious as to what has changed. It would seem something has changed with Dolby's licensing protection if DVD manufacturers can encode "5.1 surround" without crediting Dolby, yet have it decoded by a receiver that lights up "Dolby" when the "5.1 surround" is being decoded. AFAIK, until now, if a disc were "5.1 encoded" it would be identified, with appropriate logos as being either "Dolby" or "DTS". I don't recall a generic "5.1 surround", with it's own logo, being an option in the past.

 

[redshifter]

i was under the impression that it was a dvd standard to include a dolby surround (2 channel) on all discs. this is for backward compatability with older players who might not support dts or higher bitrates.

this does not include dvd-audio discs, which seem to be all over the place.

 

[rauer]

Quote:

Originally Posted by redshifter i was under the impression that it was a dvd standard to include a dolby surround (2 channel) on all discs. this is for backward compatability with older players who might not support dts or higher bitrates.

IIRC (from reading my DVD Demystified), the DVD-Video specs demand an audio track using _either_ Dolby Digital _or_ PCM.

 

[mbriant]

Quote:

i was under the impression that it was a dvd standard to include a dolby surround (2 channel) on all discs. this is for backward compatability with older players who might not support dts or higher bitrates.

I imagine the PCM track covers the backward compatibility issue. And it's understandable that both DTS and Dolby digital encoding isn't necessary as it's redundant. And if DTS provides better audio than Dolby Digital, it would make sense to go with DTS.

But as far as now having neither DTS 5.1 or Dolby Digital and instead a generic "5.1 surround" track, I'm guessing that perhaps Dolby only receives royalties from the hardware manufacturers and the reason it has always been logo'd as "Dolby Digital" on the software was that "Dolby" was some sort of prestige, recognizable, added value item and now after so many years, DVD manufacturers ( like Rush's ) don't feel they need the "prestige" of providing genuine "Dolby" surround, when their generic "5.1 surround" does the same job and is in fact decoded by Dolby circuitry anyway. Or perhaps Dolby's patent licence has expired or is being challenged.

But I don't know for sure and that's why I'm asking if anyone else knows anything about it.

 

[JiiEf]

Quote:

Originally Posted by redshifter i was under the impression that it was a dvd standard to include a dolby surround (2 channel) on all discs. this is for backward compatability with older players who might not support dts or higher bitrates. this does not include dvd-audio discs, which seem to be all over the place.

Doesn't have to be 2 channel.

/JF

 

[mbriant]

Concert For George DVD. Released 2003. Notice both DTS and Dolby Digital Logos. No 2 channel mentioned, but I assume it's there.

Peter Gabriel DVD. Released 2003. Notice both DTS and Dolby Digital Logos and Dolby 2.0 mentioned to the side.

John Mayall DVD. Released 2003. This one's interesting because it shows both DTS and Dolby Digital logos ... plus in the squares it shows "Dolby Surround 5.1" and "Dolby Digital Stereo" with different speaker placement illustration logos. The Dolby Surround 5.1 logo is the same as the " 5.1 Surround" logo ( but without any mention of Dolby) on the Rush DVD.

Rush DVD. Released 2005. Notice PCM Stereo and "5.1" logo. Again, the "5.1" logo is the same as the "Dolby Surround 5.1" logo on the John Mayall DVD, but there is no mention at all of "Dolby". In the on-screen menu, again there is absolutely no mention of "Dolby". It just gives you a choice of "PCM" or "5.1 Surround".

Combine this and the fact that the other two 2005 released DVDs ( Eagles and Queen) I purchased at the same time as Rush, do not include any dolby mentions period, doesn't it seem that Dolby is getting squeezed out somehow? Also, it appears that both DTS and Dolby Digital plus PCM can all exist on a DVD at the same time, so the "only one or the other can fit because of space limitations" reasoning doesn't seem right.

 

[hongda]

The Eagles Hell Freezes Over DVD was released in DTS only also. No Dolby.

http://www.thedigitalbits.com/review...eshelldts.html

Here was the reason for that decision:

Lee explained that Geffen Records' executive Irving Azoff (who is mentioned repeatedly by different band members as being the driving force behind the reunion tour) adamantly refused to allow this concert to be issued Dolby Digital 5.1 -- a move which reportedly caused Warner Bros. to pass on the deal.

from this site
http://www.thebigpicturedvd.com/html.../bpst153.shtml

 

[Wodgy]

Quote:

Originally Posted by mbriant Rush DVD. Released 2005. Notice PCM Stereo and "5.1" logo. Again, the "5.1" logo is the same as the "Dolby Surround 5.1" logo on the John Mayall DVD, but there is no mention at all of "Dolby". In the on-screen menu, again there is absolutely no mention of "Dolby". It just gives you a choice of "PCM" or "5.1 Surround".

The little icon they show between "DVD Video" and the words "PCM Stereo" is Dolby's trademarked symbol for Dolby Digital discrete 5.1. It may not say "Dolby" in words, but they are using the Dolby trademark:
http://www.dolby.com/assets/pdf/tech...8_dvd-tm-s.pdf

Quote:

Also, it appears that both DTS and Dolby Digital plus PCM can all exist on a DVD at the same time, so the "only one or the other can fit because of space limitations" reasoning doesn't seem right.

Yes, they can coexist, but on discs where all three coexist, are all three tracks 24/96? That takes up much more disc space than 16/44 or 16/48 audio.

 

[mbriant]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hongda Lee explained that Geffen Records' executive Irving Azoff (who is mentioned repeatedly by different band members as being the driving force behind the reunion tour) adamantly refused to allow this concert to be issued Dolby Digital 5.1 -- a move which reportedly caused Warner Bros. to pass on the deal.

That's interesting. Especially this part:
Quote:

Although we assume Irving Azoff must have some sort of financial stake in DTS to refuse a Dolby Digital 5.1 version, it's still a disappointment that this outstanding concert is going to be limited to a pair of stereo tracks on the overwhelmingly large percentage of the systems out there already in place.

So it would seem there are indeed financial considerations involved with licensing DTS and Dolby Digital. Perhaps as I said earlier, Dolby simply charges too much and that's why more manufacturers are passing on Dolby. But it's still confusing that the Rush DVD makes absolutely no mention of Dolby, yet uses "5.1 surround" which appears to be Dolby Digital and is decoded through Dolby.

 

[mbriant]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wodgy The little icon they show between "DVD Video" and the words "PCM Stereo" is Dolby's trademarked symbol for Dolby Digital discrete 5.1. It may not say "Dolby" in words, but they are using the Dolby trademark: http://www.dolby.com/assets/pdf/tech...8_dvd-tm-s.pdf

Also very interesting. I get the feeling the illustrative logo you're talking about and which appears by itself on the Rush DVD but appears along with other Dolby mentions on the John Mayall DVD, while still a Dolby emblem, is meant to be printed along with the internationally recognized "double D" Dolby logo, or at least along with the word "Dolby" somewhere. By itself, especially since there are several variations of it depending on how many tracks are encoded, it doesn't exactly scream out "Dolby" does it? It seems a little too understated for a company that has featured it's name prominently everywhere for 30 years. But perhaps Dolby is OK with that , or perhaps Rush's packaging designers simply made a mistake by excluding any sort of mention of Dolby except for that track number emblem.

 

[3DCadman]

What's even stranger is the fact that on my copy of R30 (the standard version, NOT the deluxe) there IS a Dolby Digital logo on the back of the box. I'm assuming it's exactly the same track on both discs.

I did a double check this morning, and sure enough, it fired up the Dolby Digital light on my Rotel 1066 pre/pro. When I played the PCM track it said PCM Stereo 48 khz.

Just thought I'd share what I found and saw on the box on my regular R30 version.

 

[mbriant]

Quote:

What's even stranger is the fact that on my copy of R30 (the standard version, NOT the deluxe) there IS a Dolby Digital logo on the back of the box. I'm assuming it's exactly the same track on both discs.

What choices does it give you in the DVD's setup menu? Is Dolby mentioned there?

I guess it's possible that whoever put together the type/art for the Deluxe DVD cover simply overlooked the Dolby Digital logo or adding "Dolby Surround 5.1" to the 5 channel emblem. But that wouldn't explain Dolby not being mentioned in the setup menu. Perhaps they simply decided to go minimalist.

 

[HiWire]

Perhaps the Dolby Digital 5.1/AC-3 royalty period has expired now? Then DVD manufacturers wouldn't feel obligated to include the symbol on their packaging.

 

[3DCadman]

Quote:

Originally Posted by mbriant What choices does it give you in the DVD's setup menu? Is Dolby mentioned there?

No Dolby mentioned. It just says 5.1 Surround or something like that. But it definitely plays a Dolby Digital soundtrack.