[daniel422]

Quote:

The interesting thing about the Link model (I, II, III), is that the only difference is the potential for upgrades. If I understand this correctly, the basic components inside are all the same.

THis is correct -- all three Links (I, II, III) have the same DACs (Burr-Brown PCM1716s) and internal components -- the board layout differs somewhat and the availability of certain signal lines on the upgrade header makes later models easier to upgrade. They all sound VERY good. I've heard significant improvements in sound quality versus the DVD player analog outs when the player is using identical internal DACs! (internal PCM1716s vs. the same PCM1716s in the Link) It just goes to show that implementation is critical -- not just parts alone.

 

[Zoomie]

Quote:

Originally posted by daniel422 I've heard significant improvements in sound quality versus the DVD player analog outs when the player is using identical internal DACs! (internal PCM1716s vs. the same PCM1716s in the Link) It just goes to show that implementation is critical -- not just parts alone.

This is a really good point. I think the DAC that is supposed to be in my DVD player is more recent than the one that is in the Link, but if that is really the case, I'll take the dated DAC. Truly though, a quick visual inspection of the output stages on the Link, compared to my Pioneer, reveals a whole different class of device. The back of the 656A looks like Fisher Price in comparison.

While I feel quite satisfied with my new (relatively small) investment, I can't help feel a little sick to my stomach. What does a *really good* stand alone CD player sound like . . . For now I think I will just enjoy.

 

[amadeus-mozart]

Quote:

Originally posted by Zoomie This is a really good point. I think the DAC that is supposed to be in my DVD player is more recent than the one that is in the Link, but if that is really the case, I'll take the dated DAC. Truly though, a quick visual inspection of the output stages on the Link, compared to my Pioneer, reveals a whole different class of device. The back of the 656A looks like Fisher Price in comparison. While I feel quite satisfied with my new (relatively small) investment, I can't help feel a little sick to my stomach. What does a *really good* stand alone CD player sound like . . . For now I think I will just enjoy.

Hi,

I'm looking at a MSB Link III and am wondering if I could hook up my Sony or Marantz CDP to it. Both players have just analog RCA L/R outputs. My Sony PCDP has an optical/digital line out. Could I use this as a transport?

Thanks,

AM

 

[Zoomie]

Quote:

Originally posted by amadeus-mozart Hi, I'm looking at a MSB Link III and am wondering if I could hook up my Sony or Marantz CDP to it. Both players have just analog RCA L/R outputs. My Sony PCDP has an optical/digital line out. Could I use this as a transport? Thanks, AM

The Link does have L/R analog inputs. However, I don't think that is really what you want. As far as I understand it, you want to send a digital signal to the outboard DAC so that all of the processing takes place in the Link. If you sent it an analog signal, a D/A conversion has already taken place in your player - something that you are trying to defeat by having an external DAC.

As for your portable, if it has a digital line out of any kind, it should work. The Link will accept either coax or optical digital inputs. I can't say with any certainty how well your PCDP will serve as a transport, however.

Your best bet, if you can, is try before you buy. Take your PDCP somewhere that you can test it with a DAC and an optical cable. Most decent Hi-Fi centers sell some variety of outboard D/A device and will let you try them.

Hope that helps a bit.

 

[amadeus-mozart]

Zoomie,

Many thanks- I understand now. What level of DVD player would I have to get (as transport) to work well. I have an extra Apex- but it was kind of cheap. I think it was their lowest model. I've also seen transports on Audiogon- but of course they are much more.

Thanks again,

AM

 

[Zoomie]

Quote:

Originally posted by amadeus-mozart I have an extra Apex- but it was kind of cheap. I think it was their lowest model.

Does your Apex have a digital output? If is does, and you think you are going to get some sort of DAC anyway, that would be a good place to start.

Being pretty new to this myself, I don't know a lot about what makes a good transport either. Before I bought my 656A, I did a little research and found that many of the Pioneer DVD players (Phillips too), could be modded by places like EVS and ModWright. I figured if those places took the time to mod these things, they must have some promise as a transport. I found my 656A on ebay for around $100 and just took a chance. So I guess to anwer your question, you don't need to spend that much. Just keep you eyes open for something used. If you don't care about hi res or video, a CDP w/digital output would be a fine choice too.

 

[amadeus-mozart]

Quote:

Originally posted by Zoomie Does your Apex have a digital output? If is does, and you think you are going to get some sort of DAC anyway, that would be a good place to start. Being pretty new to this myself, I don't know a lot about what makes a good transport either. Before I bought my 656A, I did a little research and found that many of the Pioneer DVD players (Phillips too), could be modded by places like EVS and ModWright. I figured if those places took the time to mod these things, they must have some promise as a transport. I found my 656A on ebay for around $100 and just took a chance. So I guess to anwer your question, you don't need to spend that much. Just keep you eyes open for something used. If you don't care about hi res or video, a CDP w/digital output would be a fine choice too.

Hi Zoomie-

I just looked at the specs for the Pioneer 656a DVD player. I sounds like it has a very good DAC at 24 bits. Does it clearly sound better with the external DAC?

Thanks,

Barry

 

[Zoomie]

I think this is what people find most surprising. As daniel422 pointed out earlier, two components, with the exact same chip, can sound so different. The specs on a page are often deceiving. Once people read "24 bit", it is easy to think that is the end of the story. The degree of difference will depend on all sorts of other things as well - like your phones/speakers, amp, interconnects and cables - your own ears notwithstanding. For me the difference is dramatic. I was so fed up with the redbook playback of the 656A, I was going to junk my player.

I still say you should try an get the opportunity to listen for yourself. What I think is 'so much better', you may feel is not worth the cost and effort.

 

[lan]

Besides the DAC, the analoge stage, power supply, and transport are other areas which influence quality. They usually only list specs for the DAC and don't mention anything concerning these other parts in lower end players.

 

[amadeus-mozart]

Quote:

Originally posted by Zoomie I think this is what people find most surprising. As daniel422 pointed out earlier, two components, with the exact same chip, can sound so different. The specs on a page are often deceiving. Once people read "24 bit", it is easy to think that is the end of the story. The degree of difference will depend on all sorts of other things as well - like your phones/speakers, amp, interconnects and cables - your own ears notwithstanding. For me the difference is dramatic. I was so fed up with the redbook playback of the 656A, I was going to junk my player. I still say you should try an get the opportunity to listen for yourself. What I think is 'so much better', you may feel is not worth the cost and effort.

Zoomie-

Sorry for the long quote... What would you compare the Pioneer to soundwize when connected to a DAC. Is it "Mid-Fi" or does it start to sound "high-end"? Whatever that means. What level of CD Player would you compare it to?

Thanks,

AM

 

[Zoomie]

Quote:

Originally posted by amadeus-mozart What level of CD Player would you compare it to?

Unfortunately, I haven't had the opportunity to do a lot of direct comparing yet. I had a chance to hear a new CD player from both Arcam and Classe. Although they were not side-by-side tests with my own source so I had to try and compare the sound after the fact - not very empirical, I know. In my opinion, my DACed DVD player is somewhere in between, but closer to the Arcam than the Classe.

I can't emphasize enough how uncontrolled these comparisons are though. I guess what I am trying to say is that with the right system the DACed player can definitely be 'mid-fi' and perhaps bordering on true hi-fi. Just as food for thought, last week I spent 15 minutes or so listening to Mark Levison mono blocks that were equiped w/Transparent OPUS MM cable, had more goodies than I can possibly list and through speakers that I couldn't afford to buy if I won the lotto. Now you certainly aren't going to get that kind of hi-fi, but I think that you would be hard pressed to find something less than $1500 (new) that would beat the used transport+DAC, but again, that's just my opinion and I have by no means done an exhaustive comparison of all the players in that price point.

Did I mention you should go out and audition some of this stuff yet? You will learn a ton and have fun in the process