cyberalpha11
500+ Head-Fier
- Joined
- Jul 8, 2012
- Posts
- 701
- Likes
- 24
Is there any different in sound signature and sound quality between DT880/600 ohm Pro vs Premium?
DT880 600ohm BS
- Thread starter Catharsis
- Start date
stv014
Headphoneus Supremus
- Joined
- Jul 17, 2011
- Posts
- 3,493
- Likes
- 273
Quote:
Both use the same drivers, but the Pro is normally only available in 250 Ω version, and it also has a higher clamping force, which does change the sound somewhat (you can bend the headband to reduce the clamp, though).
Both use the same drivers, but the Pro is normally only available in 250 Ω version, and it also has a higher clamping force, which does change the sound somewhat (you can bend the headband to reduce the clamp, though).
zeinharis
500+ Head-Fier
- Joined
- May 3, 2012
- Posts
- 887
- Likes
- 424
There's nothing different in SS between the DT880/600 Ω Pro and the DT880/600 Ω Premium to my own noob ear's, but i picked the DT880/600 Ω Pro for some reason
qusp
Member of the Trade: Twisted Cables
- Joined
- Jun 18, 2008
- Posts
- 7,743
- Likes
- 62
what actually makes the 600 ohm version harder to drive, is the fact it will be voltage limited, personally I think the 10v swing from the +/-7v supply is pretty optimistic.
I found this thread pretty hard work, it hurt my head. the OP would simply move his rather vaguely positioned goal posts to account for any result he couldnt explain and call sampling error or insufficient information, despite calling on a total of 2 measurements made by a 3rd party through most of it. He also seems to somehow disregard acceleration when talking about speed of transducers.
the fact that we are talking about a headphone + amp system here at all times as used by all people seemed to be completely lost on him. differences in reactive loads, physical construction and/or damping of some headphones also seemed to not be part of the considerations when claiming headphones are not effected by damping factor, forget the very low Z type with crossovers, which are profoundly effected. not AS effected i'll accept.
One could claim that all 'properly designed' headphone motor systems and frames should be reasonably immune to mechanical resonances caused by sudden acceleration, but as with speakers not all headphones are created equal and neither are the amps that are used to drive them. there is still the electromechanical side too.
the relationship between these factors and preferred sound quality is not clean cut and attempts to make it so are humorous/clumsy
the model is completely lacking complexity, forget humanity. very 'neat' kinda like adding too much smoothing to a waterfall or speaker directivity plot
he also admits at one point to pretty much trolling, by deliberately using more extreme language than was strictly appropriate. This is including the title, apparently chosen to elicit his preferred flavor of (combative) discourse.
i'll admit, strictly sticking to the subject 250ohm vs 600 ohm should not present all that much difference when fed by a pure voltage source; all things being equal, not as much as sometimes claimed around here. If only it stuck to that rather than spraying all around it with many generalized statements with little or no backup
all very scientific…
I found this thread pretty hard work, it hurt my head. the OP would simply move his rather vaguely positioned goal posts to account for any result he couldnt explain and call sampling error or insufficient information, despite calling on a total of 2 measurements made by a 3rd party through most of it. He also seems to somehow disregard acceleration when talking about speed of transducers.
the fact that we are talking about a headphone + amp system here at all times as used by all people seemed to be completely lost on him. differences in reactive loads, physical construction and/or damping of some headphones also seemed to not be part of the considerations when claiming headphones are not effected by damping factor, forget the very low Z type with crossovers, which are profoundly effected. not AS effected i'll accept.
One could claim that all 'properly designed' headphone motor systems and frames should be reasonably immune to mechanical resonances caused by sudden acceleration, but as with speakers not all headphones are created equal and neither are the amps that are used to drive them. there is still the electromechanical side too.
the relationship between these factors and preferred sound quality is not clean cut and attempts to make it so are humorous/clumsy
the model is completely lacking complexity, forget humanity. very 'neat' kinda like adding too much smoothing to a waterfall or speaker directivity plot
he also admits at one point to pretty much trolling, by deliberately using more extreme language than was strictly appropriate. This is including the title, apparently chosen to elicit his preferred flavor of (combative) discourse.
i'll admit, strictly sticking to the subject 250ohm vs 600 ohm should not present all that much difference when fed by a pure voltage source; all things being equal, not as much as sometimes claimed around here. If only it stuck to that rather than spraying all around it with many generalized statements with little or no backup
all very scientific…
cyberalpha11
500+ Head-Fier
- Joined
- Jul 8, 2012
- Posts
- 701
- Likes
- 24
There's nothing different in SS between the DT880/600 Ω Pro and the DT880/600 Ω Premium to my own noob ear's, but i picked the DT880/600 Ω Pro for some reason
Hi zeinharis, where did you buy the DT880/600 Ohm?
I could not find it on amazon.com. I also checked beyerdynamic.com, DT880/600 Ohm only comes with Premium and not Pro.
zeinharis
500+ Head-Fier
- Joined
- May 3, 2012
- Posts
- 887
- Likes
- 424
Quote:
i bought it from jaben indonesia, here is some picture of it
sorry for the lousy pic
i bought it from jaben indonesia, here is some picture of it
sorry for the lousy pic
Rojan
New Head-Fier
- Joined
- Dec 7, 2012
- Posts
- 1
- Likes
- 1
The 600 ohm vs 250 ohm vs 32 ohm headphones may sound quite different on certain amplifiers. For example, the Bottlehead Crack - a highly-regarded OTL tube amplifier- would probably not be able to drive the 32 ohm version very well. The 600 ohm version would likely be the most compatible with the Crack, and I suspect the 600 ohm version would offer better sound than the 250 ohm version on the Crack as well.
The premise made in the beginning of this thread- that sound differences in the various DT880 are "BS" because there should be no difference in sound when driven by a zero-ohm source impedance is obviously flawed because many amps used by Head-Fiers are **NOT** zero-ohm sources.
Just sayin'......
The premise made in the beginning of this thread- that sound differences in the various DT880 are "BS" because there should be no difference in sound when driven by a zero-ohm source impedance is obviously flawed because many amps used by Head-Fiers are **NOT** zero-ohm sources.
Just sayin'......
Just wondering if we have any fresh takes on this?
Armaegis
Modern Modder Man of Manitoba
HTML... uphill, both ways!
- Joined
- Oct 18, 2009
- Posts
- 12,550
- Likes
- 1,403
Are you looking for a specific answer here? I seem to recall you've been poking around some of the other Beyerdynamic threads. Assuming that there are the same number of turns in the voice coils, the higher impedance will be due to thinner wire, which means it will be lighter and thus more responsive. On the amp side of things, *generally* an amp behaves better with less current (ignoring arguments about amplifier "sweet spots" or class A shenanigans for the time being). Higher impedance headphones overall need more voltage swing and less current to generate the same amount of power through the headphones.
There just seems to be a lot of disagreement on the ohm differences and I wanted to see what the consensus is.
Armaegis
Modern Modder Man of Manitoba
HTML... uphill, both ways!
- Joined
- Oct 18, 2009
- Posts
- 12,550
- Likes
- 1,403
You'll never get consensus. It's all just parroting and confirmation bias.
From a purely technical standpoint assuming "perfect" amp behaviour and no other variances, the higher impedance model "performs" better.
Subjective impressions is pretty much a crapshoot, though you can draw general trends from the technical data
- If an amp can't provide sufficient power (hard limit either through current or voltage), the sound will be jagged and harsh due to higher order harmonic distortion generated as a result of a chopped waveform (I won't bore you with the math behind that)
- If an amp can't provide sufficient power (soft limit, generally current or built in compression), the sound will be mushy and weak, transients and impacts will be soft
- Headphone impedance varies quite a lot in the Beyerdynamics; if memory serves it peaks around 100Hz. If you have an amp with high output impedance, this plays a little bit with the frequency response due to how the voltage division works. Sometimes people like this, sometimes people don't.
- Headphone impedance also affects damping factor, but whether that is actually relevant for headphones and whether people like that is up for debate.
- Headphone impedance varying also results in varying damping factor for complex fun and games. Meh. Some would also call this a red herring because typically damping factors are so high in headphones anyways that it hardly matters, vs the speaker world where impedances are lower. The issue crops up more when you're running tube amps with high output impedance, but then you're into wildly different amping philosophies and intended sound, so again... Meh.
- Sometimes the higher impedance models cost more. That often leads to confirmation bias.
- Higher impedance, higher numbers, rarity, gives people the humblebrag and more confirmation bias.
Me personally, I've owned or heard almost every single variant of the DT770/880/990, as well as the Sennheiser HD25-1/13. Provided sufficient amplification, I have universally preferred the higher impedance models. I'm an educated and experience data point, but only a singular one. Double Meh.
From a purely technical standpoint assuming "perfect" amp behaviour and no other variances, the higher impedance model "performs" better.
Subjective impressions is pretty much a crapshoot, though you can draw general trends from the technical data
- If an amp can't provide sufficient power (hard limit either through current or voltage), the sound will be jagged and harsh due to higher order harmonic distortion generated as a result of a chopped waveform (I won't bore you with the math behind that)
- If an amp can't provide sufficient power (soft limit, generally current or built in compression), the sound will be mushy and weak, transients and impacts will be soft
- Headphone impedance varies quite a lot in the Beyerdynamics; if memory serves it peaks around 100Hz. If you have an amp with high output impedance, this plays a little bit with the frequency response due to how the voltage division works. Sometimes people like this, sometimes people don't.
- Headphone impedance also affects damping factor, but whether that is actually relevant for headphones and whether people like that is up for debate.
- Headphone impedance varying also results in varying damping factor for complex fun and games. Meh. Some would also call this a red herring because typically damping factors are so high in headphones anyways that it hardly matters, vs the speaker world where impedances are lower. The issue crops up more when you're running tube amps with high output impedance, but then you're into wildly different amping philosophies and intended sound, so again... Meh.
- Sometimes the higher impedance models cost more. That often leads to confirmation bias.
- Higher impedance, higher numbers, rarity, gives people the humblebrag and more confirmation bias.
Me personally, I've owned or heard almost every single variant of the DT770/880/990, as well as the Sennheiser HD25-1/13. Provided sufficient amplification, I have universally preferred the higher impedance models. I'm an educated and experience data point, but only a singular one. Double Meh.
Achlys
Head-Fier
In Tyll's measurements, the 250 Ω appears to be quite different from the 32 Ω and 600 Ω versions. Aside from the poor channel matching in the 32 Ω model, the 600 Ω looks almost identical in frequency response. Where the 600 Ω version destroys the other two is in %THD+noise @ 100dB. I don't know if this would be audible, but I felt it was worth noting.
(32 Ω):
(250 Ω):
(600 Ω):
(32 Ω):
(250 Ω):
(600 Ω):
Last edited:
Users who are viewing this thread
