DROP + GRELL OAE1

Jul 18, 2024 at 1:36 PM Post #2,086 of 3,873
They're certainly reminiscent of speakers in at least one strong way: positioning.

I was feeling puzzled by how sensitive to placement they are, and then i thought about how literally moving one inch to the left or right breaks the sound of my (cheap, not particularly good) near field speakers.

After thinking about that, it all made total sense. 🤪
 
Jul 18, 2024 at 1:43 PM Post #2,087 of 3,873
Yeah. I didn't listen to that preset, but I've tried a couple of others based on the Harman target and gotten similar results. I started working on my own preset based on just addressing some of the problem areas of the OAE1's FR with much better results. This is what I did with the Sennheiser HD800S too. It is still very much a work in progress, but since so many are complaining about the stock tuning here is what I have so far. Please consider it v0.1.

Preamp: -3.36 dB
Filter 1: ON PK Fc 180 Hz Gain -2 dB Q 0.8
Filter 2: ON PK Fc 3800 Hz Gain -4 dB Q 2
Filter 3: ON PK Fc 5900 Hz Gain 4 dB Q 3.2

I'll take a listen tonight but totally agree.

I don't think EQing to Harman will be palatable on the OAE1. It sounds super strange, and I say that as someone who listens to several headphones and IEMs that are tuned mostly (with adjustments based on my own hearing and preferences) to Harman.

Grell's recent comment here seemed to imply that the treble response changes based on the pinna. While I still don't understand how the measurement rig (which has a pinna) graphed the way it does if that's true, EQing to Harman makes the OAE1 sound incredibly bright and shrill in a way that Harman tuned headphones don't sound.

So there seems to be something going on that makes just EQing based on the FR graph not work.
 
Jul 18, 2024 at 2:07 PM Post #2,089 of 3,873
Due to the smaller and highly damped inner core of the earpads the OAE1 is darker overall and there's more bottom end bloom, and as the drivers are not directly pointing into the ears there is also less treble bite and in your head sound, lending itself IMHO to a more tactile organic feel, less two dimensional, so that the overall sound as some of us, not all, find reminiscent of stereo speaker listening.
Interesting description. I also notice bass as having slight bloom but am uncertain as to the cause… eg, highly damped / unvented, more deep bass spl than Im used to hearing, or distortion. Again, the xl soundstage permits accepting certain compromises without so much complaint. Its not that bad anyway, if youre coming from HD650 then I dont think you’d notice.

RE: treble. Im having trouble understanding “creates the right frequency response … at your ear drum”.
The OAE1s incorporate your individual ear into the shaping of the sound field like no other headphones and thus creates the right frequency response for you in the mid and high frequency range at your eardrum.
 
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Jul 18, 2024 at 2:09 PM Post #2,090 of 3,873
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Jul 18, 2024 at 2:21 PM Post #2,091 of 3,873
This is where Im at currently. afaik, OAE1 shines in a way that any other headphone can not, so I will be keeping despite my main complaint regarding big-head comfort issues. If OAE1 were limited to 1000 units and nothing else in the future was engineered to have both relatively out-of-head soundstage with extended bass then OAE1 would be legend and used prices would become unnatainable for most, so $350 would be a steal. I listened to other headphones yesterday but missed OAE1’s soundstage presentation so Im listening to OAE1 again.
I'm also in a similar place... I haven't posted any impressions so far because I feel fundamentally conflicted with the Grell.

It's both disappointing and intriguing at the same time. I'm disappointed with its ergonomics, and with its fundamental inability to do a good job resolving detail much of the time. It's just OK in resolution. It's also weirdly dark and bright at the same time, and while there is pretty deep bass it's kind of flabby and definitely lacks in definition. But occasionally it sounds simply fantastic (maybe 15% of the time), and its headstage is very interesting.

Recording quality and genre also make a difference... I tried some Bach piano sonatas with Glenn Gould, I also didn't think the piano sounded right. It has sounded good with electronic music and some current Reggae, but not so good with some older rock recordings. I feel like the Grells sound pretty great 15-20% of the time, just OK maybe 50%, and not good or worse about 30% of the time, IDK... YMMV and all that.

It needs a good deal of power, and positioning on the head is crucial. I've yet to dive into EQ'ing with it, so I've been using it as is. It was also an oddly disorienting listen at first, I felt like it sounded out of phase or had too much cross-feed applied. I checked both, and used my trusty Stereophile test CD rip to make sure all was set correctly, and it was. It takes some "brain burn it" to adjust to it I think.

From what I've read in this thread trying to use this with a dac/dongle will result in disappointment, and even a 1W amp is most likely not enough. I've used it with mostly the Flux FA-10 Limited, and to a lesser extent the Nitsch Pietus Maximus, and while it sounds good on both I think the Flux is a better pairing as it more resolving, and has a bit more treble forward tuning.

Several people have mentioned using these with a Lyr+ or Lyr 3, both of which should sound excellent with the Grell (and most headphones), as they have a Schiit-ton of power, and both amps sound great! The Pietus Maximus is also a very good match, it does help bring up the mids on the Grell and has a very pleasing tonal balance overall.

I also had connector issues at first in spite of all the warnings about it! :laughing: Push to click really applies here!

I only briefly tried the Grell on the DSHA-3, as I just got a 4.4 to 4 pin XLR adapter (thank you to all who gave me suggestions for one). While the OAE1 sounds marginally best on this amp, I don't feel the headphone "scales" enough to really make a lot of difference what amp (or DAC) you use beyond a certain point. I generally prefer a multibit/R2R type of DAC, and something like a Modi Multibit or Bifrost 2 paired with an equivalent amp should sound great with it, among many others.

TLDR;

The Grell OAE-1 is a worthy effort, and I appreciate the thought and design put into it. I think it looks good, and is of pretty high quality for its price. I definitely would want to see more extension for the arms, and less clamp pressure. The overall look and package is very nice, though the SE cable is a disappointment. From the product description it sounds like both cable are comparable in materials and construction, but they are not. The balanced cable is clearly of higher quality.

Would I recommend the Grell OAE-1? Probably not, as it currently is. If someone is looking at this vs a Sennheiser 600/650/6xx, I think those are a better choice. What they do well, they do much better than the Grell. Yes, the Grell has better bass, and a much bigger/wider soundstage, but tonally it sounds off. The HD 600 series have a much more realistic presentation of what the music sounds like than the Grell.

I will also mention the DCA/Drop Aeon RT/X line, which when on sale would be close(ish) in price to the Grell. Again, they are more resolving, and have a more musically realistic sound (to me anyway) than the Grell.

I will probably keep mine anyway, as it is an interesting design. The only other "ear speakers" I know of are the Raal and the MySphere, but I've not heard either. But I'm still undecided...

What I'd like to see in an OAE-2: bigger cups, more extension and less clamp pressure, a more resolving driver, and a smoother, less wonky tuning. I kind of view the current OAE-1 as a late beta, or a late release-candidate if it were software. :laughing: Almost there, but not quite!
 
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Jul 18, 2024 at 2:27 PM Post #2,092 of 3,873
I've been listening most all day to the OAE1's via my ZMF Aegis amp (XLR balanced/high gain). I have to express my surprise at just how good these things sound when properly amped. Tight, deep bass, wonderful treble, and timbre that I find toe tapping excellent. Listening to all types of music and they handle it all. I highly recommend these cans. Of course, YMMV. :nerd:
 
Jul 18, 2024 at 3:52 PM Post #2,093 of 3,873
I am still waiting for my OAE1 to deliver cause the german customs authorities have my pair for whatever reason since one week.
Maybe they are also testing it :D

In the meantime, I've been reading through a lot of the first experience reports here and find them really interesting.
As I am not and will never be an audiophile, I find the discussion so interesting because people are talking about a €350 headset.
I wouldn't have expected such a discussion at this price.
The people who don't think the sound is that great seem to be primarily disappointed that an HD800s, for example, which is four times as expensive, sounds better.

The bottom line is that I'm all the more excited about the OAE1, especial that i still believe that this might be a great gaming headset.
 
Jul 18, 2024 at 5:43 PM Post #2,094 of 3,873
Since i am still waiting for my phones i started reading myself more into technical things about headphones.

While doing that, an idea came to my mind and i tried to proof it with a little experiment - don´t lough at me plz :D

Sitting on my balcony, there is a little stream of water - maybe 50m away. I do have relatively flat ears, and the sound it makes is very much in the background to my ears and i have to focus on it to hear it. So what i did was, out of curiosity, bend my outer ears forward. The amplification of that sound was not double, but several times higher to what i normally hear it usually. I also heard the busy road a few kilometers away, thats normaly also very quiet to my ears, very loud.

Next idea i got was, to go inside to my living room, where my girlfriend insists of having an aquarium. I hate that thing since it makes a noise around powergrid frequency, so at around 50Hz and i can hear that in our whole flat when it is relatively quiet. It is even more disturbing being in our kitchen and that frequency, at a certain spot, gets into resonance with the fridge´s noise, giving me that whroom whroom sensation soundwise. Sry for that rant but ya.
So i repeated the bending forward my ears towards that 50Hz bassy noise and it did not change at all.

I can kinda see how people had struggles with the original design on the OAE1´s, describing them as too trebly or having a treble spike. I do assume, that people that have their ears standing off their head more then mine, get a big amplification of those frequencys - like that little stream and the busy street kilometers away got REALLY loud in comparison to what i normaly hear.
 
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Jul 18, 2024 at 6:12 PM Post #2,095 of 3,873
I've been listening most all day to the OAE1's via my ZMF Aegis amp (XLR balanced/high gain). I have to express my surprise at just how good these things sound when properly amped. Tight, deep bass, wonderful treble, and timbre that I find toe tapping excellent. Listening to all types of music and they handle it all. I highly recommend these cans. Of course, YMMV. :nerd:
Agreed, burson soloist 3xgt high gain really brings out some magical aspects of the OAE1.
 
Jul 18, 2024 at 6:39 PM Post #2,096 of 3,873
Anyone have comparisons between the OAE1 and ZMF headphones? The sound comparisons (and criticisms from some, myself included) make me think they might have a lot of tonal similarities with some ZMF cans.

From a quick search only @tvrboy has made comparisons with ZMF phones (the Bokeh).
 
Jul 18, 2024 at 8:00 PM Post #2,097 of 3,873
Anyone have comparisons between the OAE1 and ZMF headphones? The sound comparisons (and criticisms from some, myself included) make me think they might have a lot of tonal similarities with some ZMF cans.

From a quick search only @tvrboy has made comparisons with ZMF phones (the Bokeh).

I’ve compared mine to Atrium and Caldera and while Atrium has a little bit of thickness in the upper bass, it’s not a very close comparison quality-wise. At times I feel like the Atrium could be a little cleaner but after a couple days of getting used to the OAE1 then moving to the Atrium the jump in improved dynamics, instrument texture, and general believability is bigger than it normally is with other headphones in the OAE1’s price range. With Caldera the delta unfortunately widens.
 
Jul 18, 2024 at 8:27 PM Post #2,098 of 3,873
With the OAE1 it really does come down to Brain "burn in", as a long time stereo hobbiest I was able to settle in rather quickly and highly enjoy orchestral works on the new Grell, so now it becomes a toss up between the HD800S but still currently giving the OAE1 the majority of head-time.
Due to the smaller and highly damped inner core of the earpads the OAE1 is darker overall and there's more bottom end bloom, and as the drivers are not directly pointing into the ears there is also less treble bite and in your head sound, lending itself IMHO to a more tactile organic feel, less two dimensional, so that the overall sound as some of us, not all, find reminiscent of stereo speaker listening.
I was asking Mr Grell about the baffle on top of the speakers, since, in the first post of this thread, they where not there. He was kindly answering my question and i do think that without it, the HP might be easier to drive, might be less dark - altough that might result in, depending of the kind of ear of the listener, more or less brighter sound.

One of his points was to reduce reflections from the speaker itself.

I am really tempted to try to get another unit of those that get returned, to compare the current state, with baffle, with what Mr Grell initially designed without that baffle. I do see his point of putting it there, since reflected soundwaves from the outer mesh could/would interact with those, comming from the speaker itself and either resonate or eliminate parts of the soundwaves and everything in between of course.

This is such a fascinating topic.

Edit: thinking more about this - maybe the sound could be improved further, if the design of the earcups outer shell, would be close to the golden ratio that could be more open sounding. While rethinking the shape of the diaphragm, instead of pointing inward and therefore concentrating the soundpressure at one point in front of it - letting it be sphereshaped and let do the outer shell formed at the golden ratio do the concentration of waves towards the ears entrance might also be interesting.
 
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Jul 18, 2024 at 8:35 PM Post #2,099 of 3,873
Anyone have comparisons between the OAE1 and ZMF headphones? The sound comparisons (and criticisms from some, myself included) make me think they might have a lot of tonal similarities with some ZMF cans.

From a quick search only @tvrboy has made comparisons with ZMF phones (the Bokeh).
Sadly it really doesn't compare at all... I have the Atrium Open, and the Eikon 2024 as the most direct potential comparisons, as they share a bio cellulose based driver in common.

The Atrium far surpasses the Grell in resolution, and has an expansive headstage of its own with ADS. Bass is much better too, it's way more resolved and snappy. It's not a fair comparison.

It's the same with the Eikon really, which has the most sub-bass of any ZMF. The Eikon just flat out sounds better in every respect, and has the most visceral sub-bass of any headphone I've heard.

But these are at least 4-5X the cost too. I haven't heard a Bokeh yet myself...
 
Jul 18, 2024 at 8:44 PM Post #2,100 of 3,873
Sadly it really doesn't compare at all... I have the Atrium Open, and the Eikon 2024 as the most direct potential comparisons, as they share a bio cellulose based driver in common.

The Atrium far surpasses the Grell in resolution, and has an expansive headstage of its own with ADS. Bass is much better too, it's way more resolved and snappy. It's not a fair comparison.

It's the same with the Eikon really, which has the most sub-bass of any ZMF. The Eikon just flat out sounds better in every respect, and has the most visceral sub-bass of any headphone I've heard.

But these are at least 4-5X the cost too. I haven't heard a Bokeh yet myself...

Well, consider my interest in trying ZMFs piqued.

They're too expensive for me to consider buying without an audition, but ZMF is also one of the few companies that, on the merits or craftsmanship and them being a small boutique company (also being in Chicago, so a Midwest company close to home), I can actually imagine spending what they charge for their headphones.
 

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