Dr. Chesky's Ultimate Headphone Demonstration Disc - Head-Fi TV
Apr 5, 2015 at 3:11 PM Post #181 of 189
I apologize for bringing this thread back from the dead, but are there any videos/photos of the setting/stage used to record these? From the description, I assumed that this would be a binaural recording that simulated sitting in front of a band lined up in front of the listener, on the same plane; sort of the setup you've be in at a live show.
 
The binaural effects impressive, but it sounds like 1) I'm surrounded by the band, which is cool for the binaural effect but not really realistic, and 2) they are playing slightly at slightly higher elevation than the listener.
 
Has anyone else noticed this? I'd love to see photos of the recording setup to help put a picture to what I'm hearing.
 
Apr 9, 2015 at 9:13 AM Post #182 of 189
  I apologize for bringing this thread back from the dead, but are there any videos/photos of the setting/stage used to record these? From the description, I assumed that this would be a binaural recording that simulated sitting in front of a band lined up in front of the listener, on the same plane; sort of the setup you've be in at a live show.
 
The binaural effects impressive, but it sounds like 1) I'm surrounded by the band, which is cool for the binaural effect but not really realistic, and 2) they are playing slightly at slightly higher elevation than the listener.
 
Has anyone else noticed this? I'd love to see photos of the recording setup to help put a picture to what I'm hearing.

I'm afraid that I can't help you explicitly with your request, but I do think I can show you something that's related to your point. I have mentioned this elsewhere on the site (though I can't recall which thread - possibly this one).
 
Here's a link to a live concert shot in HD at The Ark in Ann Arbor, MI (the same venue in which I recorded the Cowboy Junkies in binaural). The HD video here is accompanied by binaural audio made using a Neumann type KU 100 mannequin head. The sound on this concert video is solely from the mannequin head - there were no additional FOH board feeds.
 
So, you might try listening while viewing and then just listening (minimize the browser window, for example) to see how your auditory experiences compare.
 
The end of the video also features me doing a "Reader's Digest" explanation of binaural (it takes all of two minutes or so). You can also just jump to the demo a few seconds into the video:
 
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ICj6Tx0DL1I
 
Additionally, I have written a bit about the imaging of this video in conjunction with the binaural audio, and if I can find that post, I'll update this one.
 
Also, here's a link to another concert (audio only) in which I also document pretty accurately where the mannequin head microphone was placed, albeit only in text rather than photos:
 
https://archive.org/details/SRB2009-11-28
 
You will see the location discussed in the "Notes" section.
 
Lastly, here's a link to the Cowboy Junkies show that I mentioned earlier; the head was in (more or less) the same location that was used for the Sumkali show referenced above:
 
https://archive.org/details/cj2009-10-05.ku100_at37
 
Again, same venue, but a totally different genre of music (and a very different FOH mix and musician 'placement' on-stage).
 
Here's hoping you like it.
 
Mark (immersifi)
 
Apr 13, 2015 at 10:28 PM Post #183 of 189
  Here's hoping you like it.
 
Mark (immersifi)

 
Mark, thanks for taking the time to send along these links and details! When I have a chance to steal some time and listen, I'll be sure to give your links a hear. I'm excited at the prospect of listening and comparing what I'm hearing with what I'm seeing!
 
Apr 14, 2015 at 7:29 AM Post #184 of 189
   
Mark, thanks for taking the time to send along these links and details! When I have a chance to steal some time and listen, I'll be sure to give your links a hear. I'm excited at the prospect of listening and comparing what I'm hearing with what I'm seeing!

No problem.
 
Binaural is funny in a way, because while it is arguably unique, there are still a lot of grey areas as to what constitutes the 'perfect' HRTF (in reality the perfect HRTF is your own individual HRTF). Still, Toole and others have pointed out that the deviation from a median HRTF (which is what most mannequins mimic) is not the primary detractor in terms of localization and directional reversals (also known as 'front to back confusions'). It all starts to get even more complicated when you then throw-in the cone of confusion (which affects everything, not just binaural recordings) as well as the visual aspect of hearing (the visual and auditory cortexes are, at least by my account, in lock-step). Long story short there are so many factors that affect what we perceive in terms of direction and distance.
 
If you have not read it, you should pick up this book - inexpensive and chock-full of well-written content on such matters:
http://www.amazon.com/3D-Sound-Virtual-Reality-Multimedia/dp/0120847353/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1429010636&sr=8-2&keywords=Durand+Begault
 
While a lot of this is binaural-centric, there are also discussions about the physiological aspects of the Human hearing mechanism that are really quite interesting. I would suggest that if you really want to know more, pick up Gelfand's book (5th edition): http://www.amazon.com/Stanley-Gelfand-Hearing-Psychological-Physiological/dp/B00N4HE3LS/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1429010780&sr=8-2&keywords=Hearing+An+Introduction+to+Psychological+and+Physiological+Acoustics+5th+Edition
 
Anyway...I hope you'll find the Sumkali video entertaining. You won't be able to spot the mannequin head in the video (it simply can't be seen under those lighting conditions), but trust me, it was there - and positioned more or less where it was for the Cowboy Junkies and Lee Harvey Osmond shows recorded in that same venue.
 
Mark
 
Feb 8, 2016 at 10:51 AM Post #186 of 189
  Yeah go ahead, talk down to me like you know my music taste
rolleyes.gif
(and also dismissing genres - mind you a binaural progressive/psy-trance album would be mind blowing)
 
Many of the binaural demo albums have some good music on them, but they have a number of demonstrations of mic placements, talking in your ears, shaver etc which I'm not interested in except for a single listen or two. I enjoy binaural albums if the thing is a full performance of music not randomly assorted things with occasional tracks with no common genres. Those demo tracks do nothing for me musically.
 
Mind you cheskys other released albums may be to my liking, just not demostration discs usually. I'm not knocking Jazz, Acoustic, World or Classical at all.

I really didn't address this post (though I cited it before to call attention to a very unusual (for most reading this) style of music), but I did want to say something about this in response.
 
I happen to agree with you. As someone who does more than a fair bit of binaural recording, it has always bothered me that so many of the 'demo' recordings have been a bit on the gimmicky side (virtual haircut, match strikes close to the ear, that sort of thing), rather than music-centric. That's why I'm glad that someone like Chesky (and of course...my little project...immersifi recording services) takes the technique as a means to an end - enjoyment of artistic expression - rather than the end itself. By that I mean, each technique has merit, be it mono, stereo, n.1, binaural, ambisonics etc., and to make recordings that simply demonstrate the format seems a bit, well, empty - or it can be. 
 
On the other hand, the people in industry and academia who research such matters (cone of confusion, MAA, front-to-back confusions etc.) have a definite need to make what some would consider 'antiseptic' recordings for the purpose of better understanding the HRTF and other perceptual phenomena. Some of these individuals have posted such recordings on-line; they are more research-focused than they are aesthetic.
 
Live binaural (or live mono or stereo for that matter) is a tricky thing (if no overdubs / filler are going to be done). One thing that the live recording thing has taught me is that few people (and few artists) really want truth in their recordings. Indeed, it is the rare artist who says they want a warts-and-all live recording of a specific show, and equally rare to hear them say they want others listening to experience what the audience experienced. It's interesting just how many people have no idea that a 'live' album is almost never that - countless 'live' recordings are done thinking a priori that the tracks are nothing more than the starting point of the production. Mind you, I have nothing against that approach. However, what I am saying is that when you know your mistakes can be fixed, it changes the tension of the performance as well as the Band's performance proper. This is sort of what Dave Grohl is railing against these days (and there is a lot of truth in his words) in that digital post production has made 'fixing' things very, very easy. The typical live album may have 32 or more tracks - every instrument close mic'd or taken via direct box. Why? Because a) it affords the opportunity to produce a great mix, and b) it also lets performers 'off the hook' when they have messed up a solo or their guitar had gone out of tune etc...
 
With all forms of live recording (going back to SUN style (i.e. mono, one mic, one-track), the balance between musicians had to be done with arranging where the musicians stood relative to each other and to the mic. In a way (just my opinion here), that 'lack of a parachute' forced musicians to be better performers; singers to better master pitch and modulation, and / or master their instrument by perfecting their styles. It also made for better recording engineers (my opinion, nothing more) as it was the ultimate proof that where one places the mic is (again, my opinion) the single biggest factor in terms of the fidelity and what one perceives overall.
 
So...this is why I have so much love for folks like Chesky. To quote the late David Bowie (from the album TRaFoZSatSFM) "It Ain't Easy" to get qualified musicians playing well together (i.e. live...as a Band, quartet, what have you) as well as properly place the mannequin head, as well as choose a venue that is best suited toward the end product - and this is true even if you're doing a mono session, or a conventional spaced-pair or X-Y, M-S (or whatever two-mic approach). In this respect, recordings made assuming no overdubs are possible have the bulk of their work up-front (managing the Band member placement, venue, acoustics etc), just like the old 'throwback' recordings...because when mistakes happen, you have but two choices - live with them...or do another take. This is the antithesis of multi-track recording.
 
Feb 9, 2016 at 2:13 PM Post #187 of 189
I enjoy and really like what Chesky records stand for. They make it about the music and technology behind the art and science of audio recording.
I recently picked up the binaural recording "In an Ambient Way' by Powerhouse and it's one of the best jazz albums I've heard in a long time. Very good.
 
Mar 28, 2016 at 2:36 AM Post #188 of 189
  I apologize for bringing this thread back from the dead, but are there any videos/photos of the setting/stage used to record these? From the description, I assumed that this would be a binaural recording that simulated sitting in front of a band lined up in front of the listener, on the same plane; sort of the setup you've be in at a live show.
 
The binaural effects impressive, but it sounds like 1) I'm surrounded by the band, which is cool for the binaural effect but not really realistic, and 2) they are playing slightly at slightly higher elevation than the listener.
 
Has anyone else noticed this? I'd love to see photos of the recording setup to help put a picture to what I'm hearing.

Forgive me too for bringing this back again.
 
Well I just happened to be interested in this too, especially after I rediscovered new sound from my Dac and reading Innerfidelity review of the test track. Tyll mention what I experience I had with my gear, which front / back --> left / right not much convincing and sound seems to concentrate more to hard left / right. and some of the track seems the instrument / vocal arrangement separated by quite margin.
 
 Left-to-right image was extremely stable and nicely filled with sound throughout. Normal headphone listening will often produce a audio image with three blobs of sound left, center, and right, often with gaps between. As sounds in the test tracks were moved horizontally, I found they moved continuously and predictably, though it also sometimes seemed like the sound would stay longer at the extreme left or right position before moving than I would have expected.
Read more at http://www.innerfidelity.com/content/ear-opening-experience-chesky-ultimate-headphone-demonstration-disc#DbvYBUQOOZLYCIGM.99

 
The picture of actual recording and instrument position will greatly improve insight and assessment of headphone gear
 
Thank you
 
Mar 28, 2016 at 5:29 AM Post #189 of 189
actually feel a cringe on the height test like when an object is held above my head.
 

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