Double review: Stax SR-003 and SR-X MkIII Pro

Jul 22, 2008 at 12:07 PM Post #16 of 31
Quote:

Originally Posted by Cool_Torpedo /img/forum/go_quote.gif
Nice write up Tony. I knew the SR-003 wouldn't change their character by upgrading the amp
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hehehe, but glad you're enjoying the SR-X that much.

I just wonder if you can comment about their dynamic abilites listening to symphonic works, and your findings compared to non-planar cans. And I'm not speaking of speed reproducing transients or faint details, which I know are outstanding on good electrostats.

Rgrds



Your question is very well placed as I haven't talked about it in my impressions, and can help making them more complete. I have always tended to overlook dynamic range in the past, as my interest for Classical is recent, while dynamic range has less impact in rock.
I have done some tests with three tracks. A trance song, a rock song, an orchestral classical work.

Trance: Shpongle - Once Upon The Sea Of Blissful Awareness
Here I have been looking for the SR-X Pro to reproduce small sounds and very loud sound at the same time. The SR-X can reproduce , make low sounds very clear, while being able to swing to loud sounds at the same time.
In particular, the huge bass in the middle of the track doesn't cover the low level rattling of the song, which stands out clearly, apart when the bass tone is more similar to the rattling and covers it partially.

Rock: King Crimson - The Letters
Here, the song starts very quiet, especially as far as vocals go, and initially goes loud with sounds. The SR-X go effortlessly from one kind to another. At two thirds of the song, the vocalist comes back after small instrumental sounds. The voice pops out with a huge imaging (covering the whole soundstage space) and with much louder volume than before. I don't know if this is what you are looking for, in the sense of an ability to replicate what speakers do. There's a limit in the size of headphone imaging, but it's done very well here.

Classical: Penderecki - Threnody for the Victims of Hiroshima (conduction by Antoni Wit)
Note: if you don't know this work, buy it immediately.
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It's a masterpiece and possibly my favourite classical work.
The track starts with a huge volume and then plays lower with all sorts of instrument, to reproduce the chaos of Hiroshima I suppose (I should read more about the Threnody). Sounds of all levels come out clearly and very well defined, and perfectly placed. The song goes on like a sequence of sirens, where lower volume tones can be spotted and make it "analogue".

The same trend (even to a larger extent) can be found in another Penderecki's Flourescence, where sounds have much more layers, and loud
instruments play at the same time as low instruments. The SR-X handle this perfectly with clarity and swing.

I have to run to the station now, so I can't elaborate further. You can ask me for particular works so that I can analyse what the headphones do with them.

Note: the two Stax I own don't reproduce fake details. This is a property that I associate more to Etymotic ER4P or Denon D5000, with their frequency responses, tilted towards the upper mids and lower treble, that give an unreal take on almost all songs (as well as sibilance and artificial sounding cymbals).
 
Jul 22, 2008 at 12:22 PM Post #17 of 31
Oh well, AFAIK your sources have changed since you had the D5000 and Etys at home, and now you can tell the difference from mp3 300CBR and FLAC, which is a step ahead. But I kind of agree that there's something "fakeish" on the treble (I'd place it at higher frequencies on the D5000 than upper-midrange and lower highs) of those dynamic cans.

I still cannot have a clear idea of what's really going on with the macrodynamic swings with the SR-X. Maybe you hear the very low level sounds quite well because there's some compression, so low sounds get louder and clearly audible while loud ones seem to go louder but they really don't do. Hard to say since you seem not to be familiar to dynamic range evaluations, and I'm not familiar with that Penderecki recording. That has a lot to do with the recording quality, not only with the music itself. Moreover sometimes dynamics get compressed for the amp's limitations, not the phones.

I ask all this because in my experience with electrostats, which is not as wide as it goes for dynamics, they excel at speed, clarity, accuracy and balance, but they cannot preserve properly the recorded dynamic range when you listen at loud volumes, so when you do, you can hear better the low level information, but the loudest sounds don't really get all the louder they should to preserve the scale.
No worries, this is something that many big loudspeakers, specially low sensivity ones also do, and many dynamic cans do as well.

Rgrds
 
Jul 22, 2008 at 5:57 PM Post #18 of 31
Well, we could do two things: I can get a dynamic can to do some comparisons I am not sure they beat electrostats in dynamic range as a rule), or you can get Penderecki (both the Threnody and Flourescence are sublime) and see how my descriptions can help you. I think the latter is easer, and you will only gain by listening to it.
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I am also waiting for Concierto de Aranjuez - Adagio, so I can add it to the comparison if it makes a difference to you.
The SR-X can get very loud while playing small nuances at the same time. Peaks are really well represented. Still, they aren't speakers.

For perfect evaluation of dynamic range I will need hear live performances, and it could take a while.
I also wish I had a better amp than the SRM-1 to see if, and how, the dynamic range changes.
 
Jul 22, 2008 at 8:21 PM Post #19 of 31
Quote:

Originally Posted by antonyfirst /img/forum/go_quote.gif
Well, we could do two things: I can get a dynamic can to do some comparisons I am not sure they beat electrostats in dynamic range as a rule), or you can get Penderecki (both the Threnody and Flourescence are sublime) and see how my descriptions can help you. I think the latter is easer, and you will only gain by listening to it.
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I am also waiting for Concierto de Aranjuez - Adagio, so I can add it to the comparison if it makes a difference to you.
The SR-X can get very loud while playing small nuances at the same time. Peaks are really well represented. Still, they aren't speakers.

For perfect evaluation of dynamic range I will need hear live performances, and it could take a while.
I also wish I had a better amp than the SRM-1 to see if, and how, the dynamic range changes.



I'll try to get the Penderecki recording, but I'd need all the info to get exactly the same disc, otherwise no comparison would be possible.

Had you the chance, try to get this one, it has a huge recorded dynamic range and the music is simply sublime, which is good for other evaluations:

51BZYY3PKVL._SL500_AA240_.jpg


It's been discontinued but still available at some sellers on Amazon.co.uk IMHO one of the best Mahler 3rd renditions over the much acclaimed Bernstein's, which is very good too, but doesn't have the same vibrancy and recording quality, specially for the dynamic range.

Rgrds
 
Jul 22, 2008 at 8:25 PM Post #20 of 31
I forgot to add that I agree, not for the single fact of being dynamic, a pair of cans will have a better dynamic response than electrostats. You'd need a really good pair of cans to get the whole dynamic thing well done.

Rgrds
 
Jul 22, 2008 at 8:40 PM Post #21 of 31
I have easier accessibility to these Mahler's recordings:
Gustav Mahler - Symphony No.3 in D minor - Jascha Horenstein, 1970 Recording
Gustav Mahler - Complete Symphonies and Songs - Simon Rattle
Gustav Mahler - Complete Symphonies (Cond. Claudio Abbado, 1995)

I can see if I can get the precise recording you are pointing towards, but I am not sure how long it could take.
 
Jul 23, 2008 at 12:37 PM Post #23 of 31
You're making me wish I could hear the SR-X MkIII. Well, I've been wishing that for a while, but you're not helping the situation
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Ever since some older members were comparing the 404 to the SR-X while I was still a 404 fanboy and didn't know my *** from a hole in the ground when it came to sound. Because as fate would have it, I now happen to completely agree with the criticisms levied against the 404, and would probably like the sound of the SR-X a whole lot if the descriptions were accurate, which now I don't doubt.

RE dynamic range: IMO dynamics aren't superior in audible dynamic range. They are about on par. It may seem that way with a lot of later-generation Stax amps, but a well-driven electrostat with a beefy amp behind it can keep up with pretty much any dynamic I can think of, and I've heard some of the best. The balanced HD650 and the K1000 I'd put on top of the pile as audible dynamic range goes, and even an SR-003 out of an SRD-7 Pro is, perhaps not quite there, but in the same ballpark.

That is, when it comes to audible dynamic range.

Good dynamics can also combine that with harmonic richness and tactile impact, and that together really heightens the perception of dynamic range. You really have a hard time getting away from the fact that dynamics displace more air than electrostats, and given the limitations of headphone design you are going to be hard pressed to have a 'stat that matches a dynamic's displacement. Still, the best 'stats, when it comes to tactile impact, are about as good as dynamics that are above average, but not the best, in tactile impact - so they don't do too badly. But, you can only get that kind of impact out of a properly driven 'stat, and that's easier said than done. An underdriven 'stat will be very lacking in tactile impact, and unfortunately, a lot of Stax amps are built down to a price and don't give the headphones the sheer power they need to shine - which is then attributed to a problem with the driver principle itself.

Still, on the whole, I find that it's easier to imitate the good qualities of a dynamic with a 'stat than the other way around. The fastest dynamics will never match the speed of a 'stat, and they will never have as relaxed and unobtrusive a presentation of detail. Even the Qualia 010, which simply astonishingly detailed and very fast for a dynamic, still isn't as fast as a good 'stat, and still has a tendency to shove details in your face rather than letting them be perfectly balanced with the overall sonic picture, which is what the O2 does.

I guess what I'm saying is that 'stats have more top-end potential, at least as far as headphones go, but **** me if it doesn't cost a pretty penny.
 
Jul 25, 2008 at 9:12 PM Post #24 of 31
Fine review, thanks.

I have somewhat of a love/hate relationship to the low bias SRXIII. I have described them elsewhere as a "collectors" phone. They have a remarkable definition but as most people find, are somewhat thin in the bottom bass line. There is no way I would prefer them over the 404 which is a very good all-use phone, but the SRXIII has its place in the scheme of headphone things.

Your assessment of the SRX pro seems pretty much like what a few others have said recently. It seems like a real good phone to track down. For me it will probably involve cannibalizing a Gamma Pro some day.

It's odd that Stax didn't make many of them .

As regards the 003, I have both the 003 and 001 Mk 2 portable with its amp and don't find that much difference between them. Of course you can use better amps with the 003 because it has the regular plug. The 001Mk2 is helped a lot by using a high grade interconnect, I have been using a silver cable and it opens up the sound a lot. Of course good IC's can help any set-up.
 
Jul 25, 2008 at 11:23 PM Post #25 of 31
Quote:

Originally Posted by edstrelow /img/forum/go_quote.gif
It's odd that Stax didn't make many of them .


They simply met the same fate as the Sigma's and the Alpha Pro Excellent, being too close in price to the Lambdas. The SR-X was also never meant for consumer use but in 1975 it was so far ahead of the rest that they couldn't make enough of them. Fast forward to 1985 and things are rather different with the Lambda Pro dominating over all others.
 
Jul 26, 2008 at 12:51 AM Post #26 of 31
Quote:

Originally Posted by spritzer /img/forum/go_quote.gif
They simply met the same fate as the Sigma's and the Alpha Pro Excellent, being too close in price to the Lambdas. The SR-X was also never meant for consumer use but in 1975 it was so far ahead of the rest that they couldn't make enough of them. Fast forward to 1985 and things are rather different with the Lambda Pro dominating over all others.


And of course Stax went bankrupt around 1980, if I remember correctly, putting an end to the wide array of, pre-amps, power amps, speakers, cd players and DAC's they were making at their high point in the 1970's.
 
Jul 26, 2008 at 7:11 AM Post #27 of 31
Quote:

Originally Posted by edstrelow /img/forum/go_quote.gif
And of course Stax went bankrupt around 1980, if I remember correctly, putting an end to the wide array of, pre-amps, power amps, speakers, cd players and DAC's they were making at their high point in the 1970's.


They went bankrupt in 1995. For then to be revived by some of the former engineers in 1996.
Sadly the did not revive the power amplifiers, CD player, DAC, ... just the headphones and headphone amplifiers. Or probably luckily, or else they may have gone bankrupt as well...
 
Jul 26, 2008 at 9:23 AM Post #29 of 31
Quote:

Originally Posted by edstrelow /img/forum/go_quote.gif
And of course Stax went bankrupt around 1980, if I remember correctly, putting an end to the wide array of, pre-amps, power amps, speakers, cd players and DAC's they were making at their high point in the 1970's.


CD wasn't introduced until 1982...
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... but Kai was right. Old Stax was in many ways similar to Quad as they made one product line which made them money but took huge losses elsewhere. You can run a company like this for a long time but if something goes wrong, then you are done for.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tachikoma /img/forum/go_quote.gif
I think the current iteration of stax should have enough in their banks to revive at least a part of their old product line... maybe the electrostatic speaker line
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While the speakers are said to be excellent (even surpass the Quad ESL) they were highly flawed and needed to be refurbished every few years. Compare that to the Sound Lab 945 which is a Pro model designed to be handled badly every day and work.
 
Jul 27, 2008 at 6:21 AM Post #30 of 31
I heard some normal bias SR-X Mk3 today at the Colorado meet, and they were very nice. They definitely sound like siblings or cousins to my SR-5NB; and having listened to my Gamma Pro side by side with them, I am not convinced the SR-X or SR-5NB really need the Pro drivers excel at what they do. Still, since i like the comfort and soundstage of the SR-5NB more, I wonder how my Gamma Pro drivers would sound in the SR-5NB housing.




Nah.... I promised Smeggy they wanted to be housed in wood...
 

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