[golgi]

I'm surprised nobody mentioned the Technics SL1200 series turntables. These can be had new for around $400-500. And they are the best build quality of any turntable under $1000.

 

[babyoh]

How about a used legendary Linn LP12 for ~$1k with plenty of upgrade potential or setting it up properly is too much work for a vinyl noob?

 

[ADD]

Quote:

Originally Posted by babyoh /img/forum/go_quote.gif Do you get to hear the downside of vinyl as well like the surface noise, pops and ticks, etc?

Yes to all of the above, but please also add tracking distortion, harmonic and intermodulation distortion as well as the loss of frequency response as the cartridge tracks towards the inner grooves. All these shortcomings on vinyl are extremely obvious on a headphone setup (as are all the shortcomings of PCM).

In my opinion the only thing that sounds normal through headphones is a decent DSD recording. I think vinyl is best left to listening through a speaker system. A lot of the annoyance caused by flaws in vinyl replay are dilluted by the trip the sound makes across the room from your speakers to your ears.

 

[mark_h]

/\ Never noticed these things myself? I listen through a Stax setup, I would hope it is very revealing of source flaws.

 

[tom hankins]

Quote:

Originally Posted by mark_h /img/forum/go_quote.gif /\ Never noticed these things myself? I listen through a Stax setup, I would hope it is very revealing of source flaws.

I never hear any of that either.
I dont even get much surface noise, and my arm/cartridge track prefect beginning to end. Sounds like his anti skate, or cartridge, or arm are not right.

 

[Meliboeus]

According to my ( limited ) experience, surface noise is not much of a problem, copies in good condition are easily available even on ebay or similar...with a little luck. There are also shops which professionally clean the discs before shipping.

The most relevant issue is inner groover distortion with my setup ( it may be only its fault ), but it depends also on the records, how they are manufactured, some suffer badly of distortion, some have none on the same setup...

All in all , vinyl is ok with headphones

I've recently bought the nw deluxe remastered edition of Black Sabbath's Paranoid, although it's well done and clipping free, my nearly 40 years old vinyl still sounds on par if not better, except for the quietest parts ( Planet Caravan ) where surface noise gets pretty annoying...

 

[theHof]

has anybody tried out the Pro-Ject Debut III or have any thoughts on Pro-Ject turntables in general?

 

[nick_charles]

Quote:

Originally Posted by babyoh /img/forum/go_quote.gif Do you get to hear the downside of vinyl as well like the surface noise, pops and ticks, etc?

Yes, the noise is a killer, it killed music for me in 1984 until CD arrived , you might get away with it on music with a high average level but for classical with quiet passages.....

 

[Mambosenior]

I love vinyl and have a rather distinguished rig but can't ignore the drawbacks. For most classical listening, vinyl sucks unless the pressing is immaculate. When all is right, it's absolute magic for those 16-20 minute sides. However, in my library of ca. 8000 LPs, there are about 20-40 classical ones that are barely tolerable through speakers, much less over headphones. Even with a near-perfect and ultra-clean surface there are, inevitably, distracting noises in extended quiet passages. My use of low impedance MC cartridges also doesn't help. Maybe with some MM cartridges vinyl and headphones would work for me with classical-music listening. (This is coming from an old-fart that listens to a lot of classical music, and grew up with LPs and surface noise, so my tolerance is quite high.)

For Pop and Rock most surface noise gets covered when the music begins and the sound, compared to the CD version, is more attractive. In particular, acoustic instruments and vocals. But, over headphones, I nearly always prefer high-resolution files or SACD.

Oh yes, I forgot the LP cleaning ritual (I own the VPI HW-17 along with the required "magic" liquids) that...

...well...don't let me be the one to blow out the candles on your cake. Let someone else be the bad guy concerning that subject.

 

[memepool]

Find a vintage Bang and Olfusen record deck for classical / jazz listening over headphones. These have a very sweet sound, are beautifully designed and built with a proper suspended subchassis and don't cost that much 2nd hand either for the basic ones. Further up the line you can even have fully programmable linear tracking direct drive with remote control.


The main reason these are overlooked is the cartridges are bespoke and only available from The Soundsmith at a premium price, starting at 150 USD and heading quickly North.

However they are really good value as you bypass all the pain of having to mount and align them properly since the design is factory integrated to the player already, so you just slot it in.

It's a type of Moving Iron like Grado use but much better quality and the top of the line ones have a nude contact line diamond on a ruby shank. Basically you get the detail and depth of a Moving Coil but the punch, output and tracking of a top Moving Magnet and they are very very good at minimising surface noise.

 

[Redcarmoose]

Get a VPI! I have had maybe 15 or so turntables. My second favorite was the Thorens TD 160, you can find those around the used market. I find all this talk about surface noise comical. Yes, the better the needle falls into the groove and the less surface noise. You have less noise on more expensive turntables. I did not buy my first CD untill 1991. Even in 91 tapes and vinyl were always the best deal. The fun is finding great old classic rock, going home and hearing it warm on headphones. No screechy highs, very little compression and loudness. That is the true magic, when a $2.00 thrift store record takes you away. The down side is the learning curve. 1200s are bad, had two of em. A cheep turntable can make you get out of vinyl. You need to concentrate on set up, phono preamp matching, cartridges which also work well to overcome the weakness in your system. When it all works it is grand. We all have stories of the $5000.00 USD turntable preamp combo sounding bad. This is all related to setup. Setup, making sure the overhang, VTA and level as well as cartridge angle all come into play. So you see it is a lot more simple to drop a cd in and push play. Let us not even get into vinyl storage. When you get enough vinyl records, you do not own them, they own you!

 

[robm321]

vinyl is worth it no matter what the transducer is. I enjoy it much more than all digital formats.

 

[tke398]

Quote:

Originally Posted by theHof /img/forum/go_quote.gif has anybody tried out the Pro-Ject Debut III or have any thoughts on Pro-Ject turntables in general?

I recently sold my Project Debut III after 5 weeks of use. It wasn't bad, but I had this hum that I could not get rid of. I traced it back to a piece of metallic coated cardboard that was attached to the ground on the bottom of the tonearm mount. It was like an antennae picking up hum and once I pinched it with my fingers it quieted down. I wasn't about to listen to it while holding it the entire time. I wasted weeks trying to find the source of it.

Hum issue aside, it sounded nice.

 

[Devolve]

Quote:

Originally Posted by theHof /img/forum/go_quote.gif has anybody tried out the Pro-Ject Debut III or have any thoughts on Pro-Ject turntables in general? *PIC*

I auditioned this TT when looking for a new budget one and compared to the Rega P1 which is in the same price bracket, the P1 performed much better: the Pro-ject had a bit of a hum with it and somehow revealed a lot of what sounded like surface noise even though they share the same cart.
If I had to buy again i'd still go for the Rega, even though it seems the debut III has a few more factory upgrades.

 

[jilgiljongiljing]

I did a direct 1-1 with Debut III and P1 before I picked my P1. The Rega clearly outclasses the Debut III in build, components and overall SQ. The friendly owner of the small store where I bought mine shared that opinion as well and even though he sold both he made it quite clear that he prefered the Rega tables.

I have been very happy with mine and have no regrets. I just wish I can find some more clean records that dont need a RCM cleaning, I have found a few so far, but its not everyday you see a pristine record with sleeve sitting around in a yard sale or record store. I just cant afford or justify an RCM right now. There is a small ritual I follow everytime I play records, as does everyone who loves the format, yes it does take some time and patience, but its a hobby and its part of the whole experience. Read up on it, ask a few ppl about what they do, and you will be enjoying records in no time.