[Spad]

Quote:

Originally Posted by akerman Both NiMH and Li-Ion should be kept cool.. and it should not be possible to overcharge a li-ion battery, the circuit shuts off at 100% - is this different with the ipod batteries? But ye I found out the hard way that deep discharging aka conditioning a li-ion battery is not advisable, even though IBM says so >

For you Danes the key is "cool." Cold will drastically reduce the capacity of L-i batteries. Fortunately this is temporary. Worse by far is to store it in a hot environment such as a car trunk in summer--something many routinely do with their laptop cases, etc.

Most know that L-i batteries (like NiMH) have a limited number of cycles, but L-i varieties also have limited shelf life. They die by an oxidation process which begins as soon as they're manufacturered. Even unused, the have a life of three to five years. For this reason we should all approach battery sales with a jaundiced eye. New $129 laptop batteries for $49 can be something less than bargains.

One of the most important actions one can take to prolong the battery's life is to keep it topped up, and to never discharge it below about 20 percent of its capacity. Personally, if I've used my iPods for even a couple of hours, I charge them as soon as it's convenient. This results in an increasingly inaccurate "gauge" in all L-i devices, but, unlike older NiMH and NiCd batteries, doesn't affect the battery's actual capacity. The gauge can be reset with a single discharge, which is why some companies recommend monthly full discharges.

The downside to following the guidelines is that if Apple ever rolls over for another "faulty" battery replacement you won't be legitimately eligible.

 

[AlanY]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Spad One of the most important actions one can take to prolong the battery's life is to keep it topped up, and to never discharge it below about 20 percent of its capacity.

The thing about batteries is that everything you read advises a different strategy, and many are contradictory. For instance, your advice above is opposite Apple's own recommendation for prolonging the life of the iPod battery:
http://www.apple.com/batteries/ipods.html
Apple recommends a full discharge once per month. They even provide a link to an iCal calendar to remind people who don't use their iPods often enough to fully run them down via normal use.

 

[Spad]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Taphil Seconded. I actually own iPods and a Mac mini, and thus have some investment in Apple though not precious stocks, but I still can't say a bad thing about Apple without being psychoanalyzed.

Maybe you ought to check some of my comments concerning Apple. Trust me, I'm a lot more concerned than you when they release products that aren't up to par. Remember, I'm affected by the quality of all Apple products, not just those that I buy.

BTW, I buy Apple products because I like them, not because I'm an investor. I invest in Dell, for instance, and I'd never buy another Dell product.

If Apple stock became literally worthless tomorrow I would have fairly sizeable (six figure-plus) paper losses, but I've already been through the profit taking cycle. I'd still end with a significant profit and only my heirs would be affected. You have only to meet my nephew to understand why I'm not too concerned.

Anyway, things don't always work out with me and Apple products. For example, I just got myself one of those nifty Nano armbands only to discover that it almost completely covers my "I *heart* Apple" tattoo.

You really should stop worrying about me, so. Concentrate on your school work!

 

[warpdriver]

Yeah I think the micro-scratches are very easily noticeable, don't know if it actually scratches more easily than previous iPods.

I have a case for it now that protects all the surfaces, so at least it won't get any severe scratches from now on.

 

[Spad]

Quote:

Originally Posted by AlanY The thing about batteries is that everything you read advises a different strategy, and many are contradictory. For instance, your advice above is opposite Apple's own recommendation for prolonging the life of the iPod battery: http://www.apple.com/batteries/ipods.html Apple recommends a full discharge once per month. They even provide a link to an iCal calendar to remind people who don't use their iPods often enough to fully run them down via normal use.

Perhaps you missed this in my post, Alan:

This results in an increasingly inaccurate "gauge" in all L-i devices, but, unlike older NiMH and NiCd batteries, doesn't affect the battery's actual capacity. The gauge can be reset with a single discharge, which is why some companies recommend monthly full discharges.

Discharging once a month doesn't prolong battery life, but it does reset the meter to more accurately reflect the state of charge. Many people, including some here, thought their batteries were failing simply because they would show something like 50 percent remaining charge after only an hour's use. This is why knowledgeable Apple investors were so POed by Apple's acquiescence in the battery debacle. If you realize this, and don't care about the accuracy of the gauge, there is no need to fully discharge the battery. If handled properly most L-i batteries will literally die of old age before running out of cycles.

 

[AlanY]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Spad Discharging once a month doesn't prolong battery life, but it does reset the meter to more accurately reflect the state of charge. Many people, including some here, thought their batteries were failing simply because they would show something like 50 percent remaining charge after only an hour's use. This is why knowledgeable Apple investors were so POed by Apple's acquiescence in the battery debacle. If you realize this, and don't care about the accuracy of the gauge, there is no need to fully discharge the battery. If handled properly most L-i batteries will literally die of old age before running out of cycles.

These kinds of explanations all seem like voodoo to me. They don't make a lot of sense either if you think about it logically. You said earlier that the battery should never be discharged below 80% in order to prolong battery life. Apple, on the other hand, is recommending a complete discharge at least once a month. If both of those statements are accurate, then Apple is recommending a strategy that will result in faster than necessary battery deterioration. If that were the case, Apple would be putting themselves in danger of another lawsuit. I doubt they are willing to do that, hence, the most likely logical conclusion is that your "never discharge below 80%" strategy is superstition.

The "meter" theory you suggest also sounds a lot like superstition to me. If what you were saying is true, why doesn't Apple even mention it on their support page for inaccurate battery level indicators?
http://docs.info.apple.com/article.html?artnum=61475
If people could reset (or at least improve the accuracy of) this supposed "meter" like you're claiming by just doing full cycles, it stands to reason that the support page would suggest at least trying that to resolve the inaccurate battery level indicator problem.

I don't know what it is about rechargeable batteries that causes so much voodoo information to circulate. I'd suggest that people get their information from the horse's mouth: read Apple's instructions for caring for the battery and follow those, rather than following directions from uncertain sources on the Internet. The most relevant web pages at Apple are here:
http://www.apple.com/batteries/
http://www.apple.com/batteries/ipods.html
http://docs.info.apple.com/article.html?artnum=61434
http://docs.info.apple.com/article.html?artnum=62018

 

[muckshot]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Spad ...I just got myself one of those nifty Nano armbands only to discover that it almost completely covers my "I *heart* Apple" tattoo.

You sure it doesn't say "Heil Apple"? Btw, Open Source is the future so I guess your Dell stocks might survive, not too optomistic about the others though

 

[muckshot]

Haha, just for a bit of balance, I just thought I'd add that I have a 60 gig 5th Gen on the way... Spad can add 1/10000th of a cent to that fat pot

 

[Spad]

Alan, I've written thousands of words over the years on this subject, lots of them here. I'm really tired of this ol' horse, and I just can't face plowing the same ground over and over. Why not do a search here on the subject and you'll find plenty of existing debates. It will save us both a lot of typing.

Perhaps you didn't know, but Apple doesn't actually make batteries and probably hasn't done a dime's worth on research on the subject beyond finding the best source of supply. Why not check with the people who actually do the R&D and manufacture the batteries?

I always recommend Battery University as a jumping off point.

 

[Spad]

Quote:

Originally Posted by muckshot You sure it doesn't say "Heil Apple"? Btw, Open Source is the future so I guess your Dell stocks might survive, not too optomistic about the others though

Hmmm, so I strike you as the Adolf type, uh? Well, that's not very creative. But then I suppose if you were the clever type you'd be in a different line of work.

And BTW, if Dell shares do half as well as Apple's I'll get you a better doggie.

Good move on the 5g! I hope you ordered a white one, Soldat. I ain't gonna tolerate no more whinin' about scratches on the blacks.

 

[muckshot]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Spad Hmmm, so I strike you as the Adolf type, uh? Well, that's not very creative. But then I suppose if you were the clever type you'd be in a different line of work. And BTW, if Dell shares do half as well as Apple's I'll get you a better doggie. Good move on the 5g! I hope you ordered a white one, Soldat. I ain't gonna tolerate no more whinin' about scratches on the blacks.

Who said anything about Adolph? My goodness, my aim was more of a poke at mindless subservience. I'll take a black Labrador whenever you're ready

Edit: Forget the Lab, I'm really more partial to little kitties cause they don't bark at everything that come close to them, y'know?

 

[Spad]

Quote:

Originally Posted by muckshot Who said anything about Adolph? My goodness, my aim was more of a poke at mindless subservience. I'll take a black Labrador whenever you're ready Edit: Forget the Lab, I'm really more partial to little kitties cause they don't bark at everything that come close to them, y'know?

Damn! I wish you'd said that before I got this stupid haircut and trimmed my 'stache!

 

[Spad]

Alan, sorry but I just checked the link I posted and I'm afraid it's not very direct. Here's one that takes you to the right area and saves wading through a lot of extraneous material.

Sorry for the miscue. I was in a rush for dinner.

 

[3lusiv3]

I wonder if the current nano is any different to the nano that came out in the first month, as far as scratching is concerned. I have had a nano for a week and keep it in my pocket. I have left the original plastic cover over the front black bit. So far the front and mirror-like back are scratch free.

 

[lip]

If you kept the cover over the front and back, I would assume it to not get scratches!!??

However, I did the same and found scratches when I took that off.

LIP