[rockfan4ever]

Hi there

. I'm a newbie but I have read posts from head fi for years. Portable source is what bothers  me now. I usually listen through my LG G pro 2 (lossless music of course) through a topping nx1 amp. I own ckr9 and m50x, which are obviously not high end products. I receive my dx50 (firmware 1.5.0) 2 days ago and my impression is not so good from my comparison. The sound quality is just like my phone. With the topping nx1, both share a similar sound signature, but my phone has a even little better depth, height ,separations and slightly more sub bass. The only different is the huge gap in power of each device. Previously, I tried fiio x1, fiio x3, x3k and none of them beats my phone with topping nx1. I wonder if my ears have placebo effect or those daps are over-hyped?

 

[dazzerfong]

  Hi there

. I'm a newbie but I have read posts from head fi for years. Portable source is what bothers  me now. I usually listen through my LG G pro 2 (lossless music of course) through a topping nx1 amp. I own ckr9 and m50x, which are obviously not high end products. I receive my dx50 (firmware 1.5.0) 2 days ago and my impression is not so good from my comparison. The sound quality is just like my phone. With the topping nx1, both share a similar sound signature, but my phone has a even little better depth, height ,separations and slightly more sub bass. The only different is the huge gap in power of each device. Previously, I tried fiio x1, fiio x3, x3k and none of them beats my phone with topping nx1. I wonder if my ears have placebo effect or those daps are over-hyped?

Depends on your viewpoint and usage and a few other things:​
 
1. Doesn't do much, and shouldn't do much (my personal opinion along with no. 4)
2. You need higher-end products to appreciate the difference.
3. Your ears aren't as good (a favourite among a few audiophiles).
4. Volume (this is the only one which is concrete among most DAP's: they tend to provide more juice than phones)
5. IEM's may hiss with crappier outputs (ie. high output impedance in phones)
 
That being said, most DAP's have technically superior DAC/amp hardware compared to phones: however, that superiority might not be audible to you (or everyone, for that matter).

 

[JK1]

I looked at some of the boutique music players from Fiio, ibasso, and Hidizs, and the common theme was huge battery consumption, and low battery life. Battery life on these were typically from 8 to 10 hours, even though they have around a 3000mah battery or larger. The Sandisk Clip Sport for example is a tiny player with a 220 mah battery that gets around 25 hours of battery life playing mp3 files. In terms of average battery consumption per hour, these boutique players average from around 34 to 44 times the power consumption of the Clip Sport! I expected higher power consumption from the boutique players, given that they are measured playing FLAC and other lossless formats,  but something like a factor of 2 to 4 times as much, not at least 34 times as much! What accounts for such huge power consumption? How can this be reduced to give these players emphasizing lossless playback 30 hours or more of battery life without using a larger battery or decreasing sound quality?

 

[JK1]

Part of the reason for getting a separate music player may be to get better features for playing music. With an Android or Apple phone though, it seems like over time more music apps are appearing. Rockbox is for example being developed for Android. It should be very interesting when it is complete and stable. 

 

[dazzerfong]

  I looked at some of the boutique music players from Fiio, ibasso, and Hidizs, and the common theme was huge battery consumption, and low battery life. Battery life on these were typically from 8 to 10 hours, even though they have around a 3000mah battery or larger. The Sandisk Clip Sport for example is a tiny player with a 220 mah battery that gets around 25 hours of battery life playing mp3 files. In terms of average battery consumption per hour, these boutique players average from around 34 to 44 times the power consumption of the Clip Sport! I expected higher power consumption from the boutique players, given that they are measured playing FLAC and other lossless formats,  but something like a factor of 2 to 4 times as much, not at least 34 times as much! What accounts for such huge power consumption? How can this be reduced to give these players emphasizing lossless playback 30 hours or more of battery life without using a larger battery or decreasing sound quality?

Bad software implementation. Excessive cycles for decoding. Inefficient amp. Who knows. (Bad software).
 
I'll be honest, at times I'm amazed that my phone (Z1 Compact) can play music much longer at more or less the same volume and headphones as my mate's Fiio X5 while rocking WiFi and a cell signal. Granted, he's utilising FLAC 24/48 with a smidge of MP3 320 while I'm rocking V0 MP3, but still.
 
At least in his words, "at least my IEM's don't hiss as much". I'll take much improved versatility over a slight amount of hissing that's only audible when it's quiet outside.

 

[rockfan4ever]

I think partly due to our taste and placebo effect. Sound from smartphone tends to be vshape, one way or another. I try to EQ my DX50 and they sounds "better" now. Vshape sounds like the depth and height are great and indeed it sounds great. But some may prefer a more natural sound of DAP. About battery life, I think the DAPs are terrible. I can listen through my phone all day without worrying about battery

 

[dazzerfong]

  I think partly due to our taste and placebo effect. Sound from smartphone tends to be vshape, one way or another. I try to EQ my DX50 and they sounds "better" now. Vshape sounds like the depth and height are great and indeed it sounds great. But some may prefer a more natural sound of DAP. About battery life, I think the DAPs are terrible. I can listen through my phone all day without worrying about battery

That's actually a myth: most smartphones (with processing disabled) are generally ruler-flat. 
 
That being said, it's nice if you have a DAP when your phone breaks. My phone is RMA'd right now, so I have nothing that could use my SD cards to listen to music on the go.

 

[JK1]

  That's actually a myth: most smartphones (with processing disabled) are generally ruler-flat. 
 
That being said, it's nice if you have a DAP when your phone breaks. My phone is RMA'd right now, so I have nothing that could use my SD cards to listen to music on the go.

One could use a $30 refurbished Clip Zip that has been Rockboxed though. They don't need an expensive, much larger and much heavier player than the Clip Zip to get around 40% less battery life than the Clip Zip offers.

 

[pretend]

Im thinking of buying an entry level DAP sometime before the end of this year but from what I hear it doesnt make too much difference compared to using my smartphone. The only thing that ticks me off about using a smartphone is the need to downsize sampling rates from 96/88.2 to 48/44.1. If battery consumption is so low I might not buy it after all.

 

[rockfan4ever]

  Im thinking of buying an entry level DAP sometime before the end of this year but from what I hear it doesnt make too much difference compared to using my smartphone. The only thing that ticks me off about using a smartphone is the need to downsize sampling rates from 96/88.2 to 48/44.1. If battery consumption is so low I might not buy it after all.

I used to be like you. But after doing some intense comparison, I can hear the differences. If you cannot hear them, then go with your phone, I suggest using an amp topping nx1 cause it boosts the sq of my phone well

 

[JK1]

  I used to be like you. But after doing some intense comparison, I can hear the differences. If you cannot hear them, then go with your phone, I suggest using an amp topping nx1 cause it boosts the sq of my phone well

it is not about whether you can hear differences between mp3 at 320kbps  and lossless when you are using good home equipment, in a quiet room and doing nothing else but trying to compare the sound. It is about whether listening to 320 kbps mp3  files played on a portable player  while you are walking or doing other things, and in a noisy environment, is enjoyable enough for you. It is likely that even if you heard the difference at home in a quiet room, you probably wouldn't notice the difference while active doing other things in a noisy environment.

 

[pretend]

I used to be like you. But after doing some intense comparison, I can hear the differences. If you cannot hear them, then go with your phone, I suggest using an amp topping nx1 cause it boosts the sq of my phone well

Well "from what I hear" is what I heard from other friends and people commenting on daps. I guess the best way to see the difference is probably to try it myself at an audio store.

 

[Currawong]

There isn't a general answer, unfortunately. An iPhone 6 sounds pretty good and works well, especially at lower volumes, with most headphones. The popular DAPs on here will probably sound better than a phone with a lousy audio set-up, assuming that one is using good headphones or IEMs. A less expensive DAP may not sound any better if its headphone driving capability is poor. Regardless of all that, a lot of modern music isn't recorded that well, so any benefits may not be realised. 
 
Worth considering is that many less expensive DAPs from China are designed primarily for their local market, where a is, relatively, much more expensive. In those markets many DAPs makes a lot more sense than they might in one where everyone has a smart phone with decent audio quality.

 

[bcarr112281]

Hello -
 
I am shocked there's no mention of the crucial internal design differences between mainstream electronics and many dedicated DAPs. Most devices output sound using general-purpose audio chips that integrate headphone drivers, DACs, and basic digital volume controls as a single unit. It's a cost-effective, low-power approach that allows for compact designs or long battery durations. Examples include not only phones but also products such as the Sandisk Clip+, most devices from Cowon, and even the Sony NW-ZX2.
 
Companies that build serious digital audio players usually eschew all-in-one designs in favor of discrete components. When you find a normal-sized DAP that features a mere ten-hour battery time, it's a good indication that it uses a better audio chip, along with a separate DAC, op-amps, and power amplifier circuits. The volume control itself is often discrete, too. As you might imagine, this type of approach requires a great deal of power!
 
Kind regards,
Brian
 
P.S. Please note that I am by no means an expert; l'd of course welcome any corrections. 

 

[ProtegeManiac]

 
I am shocked there's no mention of the crucial internal design differences between mainstream electronics and many dedicated DAPs. Most devices output sound using general-purpose audio chips that integrate headphone drivers, DACs, and basic digital volume controls as a single unit. It's a cost-effective, low-power approach that allows for compact designs or long battery durations. Examples include not only phones but also products such as the Sandisk Clip+, most devices from Cowon, and even the Sony NW-ZX2.
 
Companies that build serious digital audio players usually eschew all-in-one designs in favor of discrete components. When you find a normal-sized DAP that features a mere ten-hour battery time, it's a good indication that it uses a better audio chip, along with a separate DAC, op-amps, and power amplifier circuits. The volume control itself is often discrete, too. As you might imagine, this type of approach requires a great deal of power!

 

That's because, as already mentioned by others prior to this in one way or another, if you're using a very sensitive IEM that doesn't require a lot of current to drive, then it wouldn't matter - 3mW at 0.01% THD out of a smartphone isn't going to sound drastically different if you were using 3mW at 0.0001% THD when both are driving a BA IEM that has a 115dB@1mW sensitivity.

 

The only IEM I have where it really mattered was the ASG-1.3, where any Fiio or Ibasso DAP can kick my SGS3 around, with the latter having two very obvious problems. First is the bass distortion (boomy, lacks definition, percussion hits don't sound solid enough), and second is the lack of steps on the volume adjustment. The Fiio and Ibasso DAPs deliver very clean bass where the SGS3 exacerbates the bass boost inherent in the ASG-1.3's response (15mm dynamic driver), and yet, in terms of outright power and lack of steps in the attenuator, loudness war recordings can go from "almost there" to "TURN IT DOWN!!! NOWWWWW!!!!!!" with one push of the button. By contrast the X1 for example has a hundred steps from zero to max volume, and has five to eight steps between those two levels.

Neutron Music Player however has ReplayGain to deal with the attenuator issue, as well as a good EQ that can apply a wideband adjustment to the bass response. If I didn't have this on my smartphone however I'm sure I'd have an X1 too. That said, there are other considerations - if I didn't mind lugging around another player instead of spare batteries for my smartphone as well as being able to actually feel my phone's vibrate function, I'd probably get an X1.