[7Karma]

The answer is: Not anymore. When digital audio first came out, there were some timing issues with the digital stream and the DACs would deal with those timing issues differently and they would put their own signature on the music.

Digital audio is now well understood and since CDs are no longer prominent and the digital streams have moved beyond PCM to the USB, which has a clocking mechanism that deals with the timing errors, so those things are no longer at play. Given the current state of affairs, any DAC of reasonable quality is pretty much as good as any other.

I have an M-Audio Fastrack Pro, which I picked up years ago for about $200. It's got a headphone amp as well. I love that thing. I went to my friend's house who owns a $30k DAC, which upsamples to 24/1.2Mhz Fastrack Pro upsamples to 24/192. We hooked it up to his system and played some music. The differences were there, but fairly minor. I bet a professional DAC that runs for about a grand would be just as good as his 30k setup.

So, I wouldn't spend more money than you have to on it. They're all pretty much have entered a "commodity stage" where one is pretty much is as good as another.

thanks for keeping it up-to-date. it's good to know that in general, I don't have to spend arm and a leg just for a DAC. although I did purchase Objective O2 dac/amp since I posted my original post in 2012(?). I can confidently recommend more "cheaper" DAC options to my friends thanks to your information

 

[bifcake]

Even in 2012, the DACs had moved beyond the "craftsmanship stage", so it's been quite a while since they made a profound difference.

 

[germanium]

The answer is: Not anymore. When digital audio first came out, there were some timing issues with the digital stream and the DACs would deal with those timing issues differently and they would put their own signature on the music.

Digital audio is now well understood and since CDs are no longer prominent and the digital streams have moved beyond PCM to the USB, which has a clocking mechanism that deals with the timing errors, so those things are no longer at play. Given the current state of affairs, any DAC of reasonable quality is pretty much as good as any other.

I have an M-Audio Fastrack Pro, which I picked up years ago for about $200. It's got a headphone amp as well. I love that thing. I went to my friend's house who owns a $30k DAC, which upsamples to 24/1.2Mhz Fastrack Pro upsamples to 24/192. We hooked it up to his system and played some music. The differences were there, but fairly minor. I bet a professional DAC that runs for about a grand would be just as good as his 30k setup.

So, I wouldn't spend more money than you have to on it. They're all pretty much have entered a "commodity stage" where one is pretty much is as good as another.

While DAC performance is pretty well understood, The analog side can still see minor improvements as I have been able to do myself. While I have said minor this does not mean that they are not important to the realism of the presentation of music. These improvements seem to be hard to measure but are there none the less.

I'm not any great genius, in fact I'm autistic & am in general slow with poor coordination but not entirely stupid either. My main strength is being able to understand things at least on a conceptual level quicker than many can. I also have a very high mechanical comprehension but could not work at the pace needed to work as a mechanic due to poor coordination & short term memory

 

[borizm]

ESS ES9018K2M is quite good, not as good as full ES9018 for sure, but better than ES9028Q2 (this has a volume control).
Never the less the ESS chips sound still a little bit too technical to me - they are unable to release the sound fully as a good DIY modification of any better old CD player does.

 

[LajostheHun]

The basic truth to audio is that your system sounds only as good as the weakest link does in the chain, and it's NEVER the electronics especially not the DACs period, unless it is broken of course Usually it is the transducers and if you listen to speakers than your room will have almost as much effect as well. If you not happy with the sound start there, but if one just wanna chase that unicorn the possibilities are endless.

 

[LajostheHun]

While DAC performance is pretty well understood, The analog side can still see minor improvements as I have been able to do myself. While I have said minor this does not mean that they are not important to the realism of the presentation of music. These improvements seem to be hard to measure but are there none the less.

I'm not any great genius, in fact I'm autistic & am in general slow with poor coordination but not entirely stupid either. My main strength is being able to understand things at least on a conceptual level quicker than many can. I also have a very high mechanical comprehension but could not work at the pace needed to work as a mechanic due to poor coordination & short term memory

Yes I agree about the analog circuits, people always concentrate on the digital chip and not the circuit that being built around it. Having said that most improvements are tiny while can be measured falls well below human auditory thresholds, so they almost always just bragging rights. Of course lots of people have anecdotes about their experiences of what they can hear and such and they are certainly good for "entertainment" purposes, I mean if we all agreed that everything sounds the same this would be a boring hobby.

 

[borizm]

The general problem is with the weakest link. Most of the audio equipment is a piece of scrap, useless, despite of great components inside. So simplification is needed, and the state of art design.
This is why I love American and British equipment as an end user, and like Japanese even more as a hobbyist, because there is so much to do in Japanese equipment, so much to remove, so much to redesign

 

[Sterling2]

The general problem is with the weakest link. Most of the audio equipment is a piece of scrap, useless, despite of great components inside. So simplification is needed, and the state of art design.
This is why I love American and British equipment as an end user, and like Japanese even more as a hobbyist, because there is so much to do in Japanese equipment, so much to remove, so much to redesign

I read your post and re-read it, several times. I still do not comprehend it, at all. How about some details and/or explanation of what you'd like folks to take away from your comments?

 

[borizm]

- The general problem is with the weakest link.
You can swap for example headphones without any effect if you source or amplifier significantly reshapes/colorize the sound.

- Most of the audio equipment is a piece of scrap, useless, despite of great components inside.
For example I have ~60-70 different, but the very proper CD players from the golden age of audio - only 3 of them are suitable for listening. The rest I cannot stand.

- So simplification is needed, and the state of art design.
All of these CD players have very appropriate parts and most of them quite good design (for example proper ground path, good separation of components, and space on PCB to do something in a different way). Sometimes the best choice is to remove everything except DAC chips, and provide very simple solution (simpler and in my opinion better than "tube-ization" by Lampizator).
The same is with the amplifiers, in which a lot of renowned manufacturers make so many so terrible mistakes.

- This is why I love American and British equipment as an end user, and like Japanese even more as a hobbyist, because there is so much to do in Japanese equipment, so much to remove, so much to redesign
This is what it is - I can't explain why. I think Japanese look only from the perspective of the technical perfection and the production optimization, maintaining a significant profit, or killing the competition with almost damping prices, while American and British looking at the products from the very human perspective.
If you compare even an equipment in the same level range, for example old Harman Kardon with the same old Sony, or Denon, looking only at thee blueprint you will see that Harman Kardon most probably will sound great, and Japanese like Japanese.

- Somebody asked me privately about the blind test.
I have a better test. Using a well know track (or few), from well kown to me CD, using the well known to me equipment, which I believe is close to natural/neutral and I'm just swapping only one component - in most cases I cannot stand even 15 seconds of listening, what makes me be sure, that this new component will be wort something... eventually and after a serious modification.