[Ruckus]

ROFL Classical perfected?

Classical music requires 80+ Musicians. There is no way possible to have 80 musicians play in perfect unison and have every detail perfected.

Granted composing music for 80 peice orchestra takes incredible skill and talent.

But when it comes to control over music production, Classical no where close to Trance. Most trance artists are musicians. Sure they'll play some piece with their guitars, violins, pianos, keyboards. Similarities end there. The music is then perfected, timed, and alterations and changes needed.

And Rock more detailed? What rock do you listen to. Even Eric Clapton's (granted its blues) amazing hands cannot produce the details that is Trance.

My comment on perfection had nothing to do with talent. Not comparing talent needed for composing Classical music or Guitar playing of Eric Clapton, George Winston and other talented modern musicians. Takes musical genius to do all.

 

[Fing]

The things I find important when I listen to music are tonal balance and high resolution across the frequency range.

To me, warm sounding means that the tone is tipped towards the bass, away from the treble. This doesn't necessarily mean that resolution is gone, it's just that it's often easier to hear the details in the higher frequencies and if they aren't as prominent, then it may make it harder to hear them as easily.

My (limited) experience of trance is that it is balanced in order to be played through live systems where bass plays what can said to be a dominant role, so I don't think higher frequencies (though certainly important) are given the same consideration to producing subterranean bass.

I would say that getting quality, warm sounding headphones is a good thing as long as it is resolving enough of the higher frequencies and doesn't overly recess them. But I feel that it is a flavour thing and if relaxing to it is your thing, well - why not?

 

[Davesrose]

I see, lets dismiss all accomplishments of composers/musicians through the ages....


You think "progression" is the ability for a computer to make the music for people????

Generating algorithms is quite an easy thing to do.....you can even set up the computer to randomly pick measures to change keys. And from your sweeping generalizations on classical music....I can figure you haven't listened to Bach's fugues that create choruses with just one instrument. No "80+" instruments there

Concurrently, a symphony is a dynamic assemblage that does have detail and melody....otherwise it would be an incoherent mess. I urge you to listen to other genres before dissing them. Actually picking up and instrument and learning how to make some music will also help gain some music terminology! I respect Trance and do like it....but I also don't get blind sighted to put it on some pedestal. Music is fluid....what is great about modern music is so many genres feed off of one another.

 

[Hanga]

Quote:

Originally Posted by yossi126 /img/forum/go_quote.gif More bass?! Man...

Yeah, I could use more bass. But I don't know if it perhaps is the Fubar III that limits the bass?

 

[MaZa]

Quote:

Originally Posted by yossi126 /img/forum/go_quote.gif More bass?! Man...

It has lots of mid and upper bass, but real deep bass isnt that impressive.

 

[Ruckus]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Davesrose /img/forum/go_quote.gif I see, lets dismiss all accomplishments of composers/musicians through the ages.... You think "progression" is the ability for a computer to make the music for people???? Generating algorithms is quite an easy thing to do.....you can even set up the computer to randomly pick measures to change keys. And from your sweeping generalizations on classical music....I can figure you haven't listened to Bach's fugues that create choruses with just one instrument. No "80+" instruments there Concurrently, a symphony is a dynamic assemblage that does have detail and melody....otherwise it would be an incoherent mess. I urge you to listen to other genres before dissing them. Actually picking up and instrument and learning how to make some music will also help gain some music terminology! I respect Trance and do like it....but I also don't get blind sighted to put it on some pedestal. Music is fluid....what is great about modern music is so many genres feed off of one another.

Been playing Piano, playing classical music for 12 years. Don't lecture me on Classical music.

You either have not read my posts or do not comprehend what I wrote. I'm talking about perfecting the music. Nothing about algorithms changing random keys or the complexity of classical music and other genres.

If you can't understand what I wrote, then I give up. I couldn't have been clearer.

 

[Happymonkey]

Just a little insight to this interesting back and forth here.

I think what Ruckus is trying to say is that the control and degree of precision that a trance artist has over the entire composition of music is higher than a classical conductor. Everything can be picked, pruned, and edited into perfection until the artist is satisfied. With classical however, you have multiple artists playing with one another and often times there are imperfections that cannot be accounted for. For instance, I know that there was a thread in the music forum where someone mentioned a violinist (or at least that's where they think it came from) was audibly tapping his foot.

However, I wouldn't count classical out just quite yet because there's some mind blowing recordings out there. I can't speak on your experience as a pianist, but there's a huge difference between being a single player and part of the band. I've been playing classical and jazz piano for 13 some years now as well as big band jazz and orchestral for 10. All of those imperfections I feel are just part of the music. In trance you listen to one mastermind at work whereas in classical you hear one mastermind shining through (using the previous number) 80+ artists.

In the end it's all about what you hear and what makes you happy. Both types are good no?

 

[slattikarma]

I have the DT770s and I think they are considered 'warm', yet I think they are absolutely fantastic for trance.

I think you need a bit of warmness, otherwise the music sounds too clinical, programmed and robotic.

Afterall, I'm not sure if I'm right about this, but wouldn't the big soundsytems employed by clubs and outdoor trance festivals also be 'warm' sounding too? And far from neutral? Judging by the stacks and stacks of woofers set up....

Also some more alternative recommendations for trance than those mainstream options listed above:

Protoculture
Vibrasphere
Son Kite

 

[Xoen]

I'm into Trance as well, mostly the uplifting kinds like some of Paul Van Dyk's or Armin Van Buuren's mixes, and I like them in somwhat impactful cans. I prefer cans that aren't too bassy, since that'll kinda take away from the experience if all I'll hear is the repetitive boominess of the beats partly overpowering the music, and cans that has smooth mids and crisp highs especially since I want the cymbals to sound sharp but without sibilance . But I wouldn't want them too light sounding either, cause then I won't "feel" the music. It's kinda hard to explain and I'm not sure I posted my opinion clearly.

Right now, my two ATs are giving me enjoyment with Trance music since they're sound is somewhat close to how I like the music to sound like.

 

[shigzeo]

i prefer very clinical phones for trance. fast and detailed. for instance, i boost the bass and love the dt880 above any other phone for trance. i own dt770 and cannot get into the bass - it needs to be perfect. someone up there said that it needs to be perfect and that trance is a perfect genre.

i agree to a great extent. every beat is planned and if it is missed even slightly, the crowd will be thrown from the frenzy. it is a music with one purpose, to drive the crowd into an emotional/spiritual/cognitive high either enhanced by drugs or on its own. it is beautiful and deep. i came from rock saying things like electronic music is stupid and no talent. i gave that up after spending some time with it and completely forgetting rock unless it is crossover like depechme mode, synth/glam or pop-rock.

trance is far too serious to have ear-beating phones. naturally, i prefer to enjoy trance in the club, but otherwise, clinical phones are my favourite.

otherwise, listen to ruckus, s/he is right. artists as well, though i have been with trance for long enough and most of my friends are dj's that i love the old trance and trance from 20 years ago when it was evolving from acid rock/electronic/hypnotic mess it was.

my favs are still from 2002-2005 eraand some from 1999-2000. it does get better each year yes, but only because the best artists and djs get older and gather more experience. they bring up the young and starving djs - truly a family feeling. there seems to be little competition and little trying to outdo another. if there is a good song or style, use it and make it better or incorporate it into your own mix.

as ruckus said, many who think of trance especially who i have talked with from usa/canada think of chill-out or house - very different. come over to my place, i have 40 days of trance and i can show from goa to progressive to hard to hypnotic/vocal, psyc etc. it is varied, evolutionary and probably of the last 10-15 years one of the only genre that has not taken a turn for the worse. it has not gotten violent or given into emo - it is pure and though it is becoming popular it still keeps to its virtuous past.

 

[Bosch]

Since trance and techno music sounds pretty blah without subwoofer assistance in a speaker setup, ditto for headphones. If you don't get a strong bass punch (minus bloat) then to me it just sounds flinty and weak, like cheap PC speakers.

I think trance is no different to most music...get good performance across the frequency spectrum with decent soundstaging (I think this is also essential with electronic music) and you won't be disappointed.

 

[yossi126]

Bass is what makes the crowd move, have the greatest melody but the crowd won't move without a beat.
People who listen to trance need that thumping bass (I can't suffer my music out of say k701, but it's a great headphone to say the least).

 

[Davesrose]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ruckus /img/forum/go_quote.gif Been playing Piano, playing classical music for 12 years. Don't lecture me on Classical music. You either have not read my posts or do not comprehend what I wrote. I'm talking about perfecting the music. Nothing about algorithms changing random keys or the complexity of classical music and other genres. If you can't understand what I wrote, then I give up. I couldn't have been clearer.

I guess you haven't played seriously if you think classical music is nothing but an "80+ musician" ensemble

OK...lets see what you wrote:
Quote:

Frankly what other Music Genre is as perfected as Trance? This is the music of perfectionists. Every detail, every beat, every vocal you hear has been perfected, timed perfectly. Nothing is left for granted. And trance listeners expect nothing less. As many of you Trance lovers know, those who don't listen to trance. Trance is probably one of the few if not the only genre of music with Musicians trying to mimic Artists. Many Trance artists in fact try to bring the techniques and styles you see in paintings, all types and try to mimic that in music. Its a weird concept, but with new algorithms and coding, they are trying. Its really weird thing to discuss, but there are tons of sites and forums about this. Interesting to read and then hear, see if you hear what it is they are talking about.

See....the way I read your generalizations is that you think Trance is some sort of "more precise" music because of the "new algorithms and coding". Being in the graphic arts myself, I'm not sure what you're getting at with Trance being the only artform......most people would say that a good melody is just like a painting. You have several parts that have to be balanced to form a coherent melody. You don't think classical composers don't think about timing???

You don't think other fans of other genres are not discerning of music???

"Precision" is needed for forming a melody from a written piece with a 100 instrument orchestra, to a classical guitar concerto, to just one pipe organ playing a Bach fugue. But please define your vision of "precision" if I can't get what you say you've made so clear.

 

[Hanga]

Quote:

Originally Posted by MaZa /img/forum/go_quote.gif It has lots of mid and upper bass, but real deep bass isnt that impressive.

All I know is, while the bass is good and strong in most of the tracks, it can be very weak in certain tracks, that should not have a shy bass.

 

[_j_]

Was just listening to a Warp Brothers DJ set on HD650 while reading this thread...

The warm liquid-like bass of these phones has me bangin my head and stomping my foot like I'm at a club or something. (Then I open my eyes and I'm still at my desk...)

Even some of my older (and not so well live recorded) personal Trance DJ sets sound fantastic on these phones too. (well at least better than on other phones)

Loving it.