[Canman]

Quote:

Originally Posted by rodbac Cables don't "sound" like anything- they ONLY transfer a signal. You can discuss how a lot of things "sound", but cables are NOT one of them.

Arguing with person who makes blanket statements like this is like talking to a wall. As you might imagine, it gets old quick.

If you want to have intelligent discussion go ahead but otherwise stop wasting bandwidth.

 

[JohnFerrier]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Canman Arguing with person who makes blanket statements like this is like talking to a wall. As you might imagine, it gets old quick. If you want to have intelligent discussion go ahead but otherwise stop wasting bandwidth.

You couldn't set an example?


JF

 

[rodbac]

Quote:

Arguing with person who makes blanket statements like this is like talking to a wall. As you might imagine, it gets old quick. If you want to have intelligent discussion go ahead but otherwise stop wasting bandwidth.

Oh, brother...

First, it's not a "blanket statement", Canman- it was 'to the point' and didn't imply encompassing anything that wasn't expressly stated.

Second, it has nothing to do with whether I'm listening and responding to the subjects brought up (which I've done with extreme care, you'll note), which would lead you to classify me as being "like a brick wall".

Note: This is to say nothing of the fact that I already explained the reason it was brought up- call it "picky" if you want, but at least be accurate.

 

[Kurt]

Quote:

Originally Posted by rodbac ... but I have no idea what you're talking about. On what blind test were you looking for a comment from me?

http://www6.head-fi.org/forums/showp...&postcount=246

And we already know it's just a blind test and not documented.

 

[rodbac]

Quote:

And we already know it's just a blind test and not documented.

Kurt, did you miss all the comments on that "experiment"? It's been discussed. No further comment is warranted.

 

[Kurt]

Quote:

Originally Posted by rodbac Kurt, did you miss all the comments on that "experiment"? It's been discussed. No further comment is warranted.

LOL, the comments were just about the abx claim and the non-existent documentation, ie verifiable data. Hence my comment “And we already know it's just a blind test and not documented.”
Lame attempt, btw.

 

[Langrath]

Quote:

Originally Posted by NeilPeart First of all our ABX testing was just for fun and not for the posterity of Lockheed Martin or any other group/persons/etc. 1.All the cables (stock, Cardas v2 and Zu Mobius) were 10’ in length. 2.All interfaces were cleaned with alcohol prior to testing. 3.No measurements of any kind were taken – we were strictly using our inherently flawed ears. 4.The DAC1’s HPA-2 headphone amp features 2 0ohm outputs identical in every regard to each other. We connected 2 HD650s to the DAC1 and we used a glass TOSLINK to connect to the Meridian 588 (no interconnects of any kind were used; we were simply using the 588 as a transport for the DAC1). Power regeneration was provided by my PS Audio P300 with Multiwave II, setting 3 enabled. The 588 and DAC1 were plugged into separate outlets on the P300 (kitty corner to one another). The P300 hovered at ~ 25 Watts and it was connected to a Power Port outlet using a PS Audio Prelude power cord. 5.One man functioned as the proctor while the other two listened (and the roles rotated). The proctor held the cable at its junction to reduce the psychological effect of cord mass/dimension. We used the following media: “Kind of Blue” by Miles Davis, “Bach: Solo Suites for Solo Cello” by Janos Starker, “Wish You Were Here” by Pink Floyd and “Post” by Bjork. Remember this test was very informal and more musical variety would have yielded more tangible results. It was unanimously agreed that Janos Starker’s use of chords and Bjork’s “Hyperballad” bass intro were the easiest way to identify the differences between cabling. I must admit that the difference between the Cardas and stock was not always apparent and did require more time to identify (though it was identified after more extensive listening, especially when highlighting the pieces mentioned above) than the Zu Mobius, which was almost always identifiable (this could be due to the use of a silver/copper hybrid approach). I’m certain this amateurish testing will not satiate the die-hard engineers among you but it was a fun weekend and damnit I just don’t care – I really enjoy and appreciate my HD650/Zu Mobius and it enables me to enjoy my music more than ever. If you skeptics want to reproduce this test go ahead – but please at least listen to the different cables before dismissing their legitimacy.

This could have been a test. But why no results? How many times did you get right or wrong results? For example, we did 50 tries and guessed right 30 times. That is different against: We did 50 tries and guessed right 48. The first can be by chancing the second probably not.

This quotation worries me: "I must admit that the difference between the Cardas and stock was not always apparent and did require more time to identify (though it was identified after more extensive listening)

That is the tester couldn't identify the difference. And was requested to try once again. Then he heard the improvement. Of course he did. That is was a blind test shall avoid. "Listen once again and try to hear that this is the better cable"

Georg

 

[rodbac]

Quote:

LOL, the comments were just about the abx claim and the non-existent documentation, ie verifiable data. Hence my comment “And we already know it's just a blind test and not documented.” Lame attempt, btw.

"LOL"? Are you under the impression there's some kind of "gotcha" here? Lame attempt at what? [edited] Seriously- I'm getting the impression your first language isn't English- is that the problem here?

That "experiment", while probably fun, doesn't even approach the requirements for being considered valid, and I'm sure NeilPeart would be the first to say he didn't intend it to be published in a scientific journal. I'm not sure what else you're looking for from me or anyone about it. If I'm missing what you're after (beyond that), let me know.

Langrath- how many times the listener got it right, wrong, or otherwise is irrelevant because there were too many factors that could have (and probably did) influenced the listener that weren't accounted for and eliminated. Don't waste too much time concentrating on the analysis.

 

[JohnFerrier]

Thanks rodbac, Len, JaZZ, Phil, *everyone*. I did learn a few things (and will keep it to myself). I also think I doubled my post count in one thread. I didn’t answer a few questions at the end, but I not really sure anyone (especially Phil : ) expects my answer—it’s a bit late anyway.

I don’t know if this has ended, but enjoy the music.


JF

 

[Kurt]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Langrath And was requested to try once again.

That is not what is written in that post. Sometimes they were not sure until the aforementioned pieces were played. Interesting what ones bias can make out of that.

Quote:

Originally Posted by rodbac Lame attempt at what?

To discredit a Blind Test.
It’s understandable. Such test’s are more dangerous for your position than hearing it with your own ears.
But it is easy, just repeat: The test is not documented and therefore proof only for the people that were there and not for us!

 

[enemigo]

You thought this tread was finally dead, didn't you?

I found this article from audioholics during my search on this subject. I guess it's of some interest to the involved here.

Knut

 

[enemigo]

And the 2nd part of the face off (speakercable reviews)

A quote from the review to turn you on...
Quote:

Originally Posted by ...not exactly posted by him, nevertheless: Axiom Audio President and Founder Ian Colquhoun We know that normal lengths of cable of a reasonable gauge (certainly up to 25 ft. of 14 gauge) are not going to have any effect on the speaker's performance

 

[JohnFerrier]

Thanks. That's a lot of reading material.

FWIW: I had did some similar measurements here...
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/showt...ht=#post275886

(Another long debate...)


JF

 

[Feanor]

Hey, now that the thread is decomposing, could somebody move it into the cable forum? People searching there can read all the pro/contra arguments in this thread monstrosity, but I doubt people are searching for something like this in the headphones forum.

 

[Langrath]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Feanor Hey, now that the thread is decomposing, could somebody move it into the cable forum? People searching there can read all the pro/contra arguments in this thread monstrosity, but I doubt people are searching for something like this in the headphones forum.

Do you think that anybody in cable forum is doubting that you hear differences in cables?

Georg