[dag655321]

I am sorry if this has been answered before, but I did not find what I was looking for in the search, so here goes.

I was able to borrow a pair of Sony Qualia 010s for a while, and I was actually quite disappointed. Yeah, I guess they are very detailed, but they also sound very unnatural. They have this "honky" or "echoey" (is that a word?) sound to them, that I believe is due to the horn shaped cone that connects the driver to rest of the ear pad. It makes some instruments sound very strange, especially distored guitars.

So my question is, do the Sony SA1000, 3000 and 5000 exhibit the same bevahior? They all appear have a similar cone between the driver and ear pad. I am interested in adding a good Sony can to my collection, but if the $3000 plus Qualia can't get it right, I am weary of buying a cheaper model based on the same design.

How about the MDR-F1? They do not have the cone between the driver and ear pad. Do they exhibit the same behavior? I only briefly heard a pair in a Sony store a few years back. I remeber really liking them, but that was back when Sennheiser was all I knew in the world of headphones.

 

[jefemeister]

The SA-5000 is nothing like the Qualia in regard to the echoy-ness. The 010 proponents here will say you didn't get a correct "seal" with them due to sizing issues and that's where the echo chamber came from. I personally can't compare 010 sound to SA5k sound, because I haven't been able to acheive seal either. The SA5k's are a mixed bag IMO. The midrange is to die for, I just think they are bright--this may just be becasue I normally listen with 650s though.

 

[dag655321]

Thanks for your opinion, but I must add, that I did get a good seal with the Qualias. I got out my little #0 Phillips head screw driver and adjusted the Qualias to get the best fit possible. The honkyness never went away even if I pressed the earcups against my head to improve the seal even further. I can't imagine those fancy Qualis hollow leather ear pads ever making a really good seal on anyones head. They must not be relying on a tight seal for the sound.

 

[t10]

I have the SA1k's. Never heard of the 3k, 5k or the 010's.

I would not describe the sound of the SA1k's as echoish, but they do sound hollow and bright to me. Kind of like playing a stereo inside an empty metal bunker.

I use the padding inserts though, which tame them a bit, enough to make them fairly pleasant for vocals and acoustical stuff.

 

[PATB]

I had a chance to briefly audition a Qualia and I liked it, a lot actually. I listen mostly to HD650 and prefer dark sounding cans, but I didn't find the Qualia bright and I didn't hear the echoey sound. That was a brief audition so I can't comment on whether I will find the Qualia "bright" in long listening sessions. I haven't heard the SA5K and that might be a cheaper route.

How does the SA5K compare to the Qualia in terms of treble extension? Is the SA5K brighter? Which one has "harsher" highs?

 

[Spad]

More than any other headphone marque that I know of, the Sonys seem to elicit wildly varying reactions. There doesn't seem to be much middle ground, people either love 'em or hate 'em. Personally, I love my SA5K and wouldn't part with them. But even I think there is something strange about them. Most of the time I think they're the best I've heard, but on some material something just seems not quite right. And I have absolutely no idea what that something might be.

Still, despite having a fair range of headphones to choose from, I find I almost always grab the SA5K--except when their 47 foot cable makes them inconvenient.

 

[elmoe]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Spad More than any other headphone marque that I know of, the Sonys seem to elicit wildly varying reactions. There doesn't seem to be much middle ground, people either love 'em or hate 'em. Personally, I love my SA5K and wouldn't part with them. But even I think there is something strange about them. Most of the time I think they're the best I've heard, but on some material something just seems not quite right. And I have absolutely no idea what that something might be. Still, despite having a fair range of headphones to choose from, I find I almost always grab the SA5K--except when their 47 foot cable makes them inconvenient.

I dont agree with this. They're headphones as common as other headphones. They're good but not great, I let my pair go when I received my Stax SR-404/SRM-313 combo because the sound is comparable although much more refined with the Stax. Try electrostatics and it'll change your opinion of the SA5k

Those headphones sound artificial to me now compared to the Stax.

 

[overlunge]

IMHO, SA5000's shares a few common characteristics with the 010 and the same time the adjustable sizing makes them more user friendly. Qualia in the other hand is more a labourous affair, I have found the sound to be a improvement over SA5000, monster bass with soundstage more faithful to the recording. And the dynamic of 010 is quite astonishing. But the same time, I understand the echo issue, which I also had initially and after fine tuning the headband it went away completely.

Another thing I found with Qualia is that they demand good powerful amplification to bring out the sound and improve the dynamics. Which I yet to successfully achieve at this stage.

Just my two cents,


Overlunge

 

[Spad]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jashugan I dont agree with this. They're headphones as common as other headphones. They're good but not great, I let my pair go when I received my Stax SR-404/SRM-313 combo because the sound is comparable although much more refined with the Stax. Try electrostatics and it'll change your opinion of the SA5k Those headphones sound artificial to me now compared to the Stax.

I didn't say they weren't common. Good lord, Sony headphones may well be the most ubiquitous in the world. What I said was that people seemed to love or hate them.

Aren't you being a little presumptuous in saying that trying electrostatics would change my opinion of the SA5K? Or were you just looking for an opportunity to mention your new toy?

Seriously, I don't have electrostatics for the same reason I rarely use my K1000: because I don't want to be tethered. I'm attracted to headphones by their portability. I often like to stroll about with my music, and that tends to be a little difficult with Stax. These days I prefer an iPod, an SM3, and an eclectic mix of headphones to even my speaker-based system.

It's really just a matter of what floats your boat, right?

 

[drarthurwells]

I've had the top Stax system in the past, and loved it.

I think the SA5000 is the best headphone for under $2000.

It reminds of the Stax, and the ER 4S reminds me of the SA5000.

Never heard any honkiness or any other sound anomaly with the SA5000.

Both the Qualia 010 and SA 5000 use the same driver, wire, and magnet type, and have the same impedance. I suspect they are close in sound quality though few 010 owners would admit it after paying so much for the 010. I have never heard the 010, so my comments are based on material equivalences.

The best quality source and amp are needed to appreciate the SA5000's superiority. Definition, clarity, dynamic impact, and naturalness of tone are great - with the right equipment.

The only reason I have not bought the UE 10 pro is that I am afraid I will still prefer the SA5000 and not use the UE 10 pro much.

 

[overlunge]

Quote:

Originally Posted by drarthurwells Both the Qualia 010 and SA 5000 use the same driver, wire, and magnet type, and have the same impedance. I suspect they are close in sound quality though few 010 owners would admit it after paying so much for the 010. I have never heard the 010, so my comments are based on material equivalences.

Overlunge

 

[catscratch]

I can attest from experience that the right seal with the 010 makes a massive difference. I was listening to a pair that was too small for me so I had to more or less hold it in place, but as soon as the seal was right, everything basically clicked into place. It wasn't overly bright, but very well balanced from top to bottom, with excellent detail and soundstage all around. The one area where it did seem a bit unnatural was in tones and textures of some specific instruments... I don't really know, just something subtly wrong there.

They're probably the best cans for electronica, where textures don't really matter. Still, they're not in the same league as the top tier electrostats IMO.

 

[bankuo]

Quote:

Originally Posted by drarthurwells Both the Qualia 010 and SA 5000 use the same driver, wire, and magnet type, and have the same impedance. I suspect they are close in sound quality though few 010 owners would admit it after paying so much for the 010. I have never heard the 010, so my comments are based on material equivalences.

I remember seeing this statement before, but I am afraid that so far there isn't enough evidence indicating the two (010 and 5k) uses the same driver, wire and magnet. Anyone has more info on this?

 

[jjcha]

Quote:

Originally Posted by drarthurwells Both the Qualia 010 and SA 5000 use the same driver, wire, and magnet type, and have the same impedance. I suspect they are close in sound quality though few 010 owners would admit it after paying so much for the 010. I have never heard the 010, so my comments are based on material equivalences.

I have no desire to feed the troll.

To the original poster, I will say that I owned a SA5000, upgraded to the Qualia 010, sold my SA5000 to a good home, then bought another SA5000 because I missed it. The SA5000 sounds different from the Qualia 010. At the end of the day, I didn't use the SA5000 very much though, and currently mine are out on loan to other head-fi'ers. The Qualia 010 is a different experience that outclasses the SA5000 by a fair margin. But the SA5000 is a punchier, more masculine sound that's an awful lot of fun. I don't regret repurchasing the can at all, but I also don't feel the need to listen to it all that often.

As for any weird hockeyness, the Qualia 010 is much more prone to weird/hollow/echoey sound than the SA5000. I've never had that problem with the SA5000 but hear it once in a while with the 010 in certain rigs or if I haven't used them in a while.

Oh, also, you asked about the SA3000. I own one here but pretty much consider it pretty junky for the price. It does sound similar to the SA5000, but somehow manages to lose the magic. I think if it cost $150 it might be worth it.

Best regards,

-Jason

 

[Trogdor]

I've had both the 5k and 010 in my possession for the past week. A friend picked up the 5k after listening to it at a meet.

As far as the 010 is concerned, you MUST have the right fit, seal, what have you or they don't sound that great. As catscratch stated, once you have the right fit, everything comes into place. They are very sensitive to head placement which I feel is their weakest attribute and the basis for the wide disparity of opinions about them.

Quote:

Originally Posted by drarthurwells Both the Qualia 010 and SA 5000 use the same driver, wire, and magnet type, and have the same impedance. I suspect they are close in sound quality though few 010 owners would admit it after paying so much for the 010. I have never heard the 010, so my comments are based on material equivalences.

My friend, listen to both and then make an assessment. If your not going to do that, I don't think you can really make a fruitful comparison. I can reverse your logic and claim that 5K owners like to think they have the exact same sound as a can that costs 4 times as much.

Now, in terms of the 5k vs. 010, my experiences have been quite interesting to say the least. Here is a quick rundown so far (neither the 5K or the 010 have been totally broken in):

Disclaimer: I own the 010's, my friend own's the 5K. I've spent a lot of time with both currently through my Apogee MiniDAC's headphone out.

The 010 offers a much bigger soundstage. That's really the very first thing one notices as soon as you switch. The 5k's soundstage is not nearly as big as the 010's (that probably has to do with the bigger air chamber around the ear). I also feel the details are separated much much better on the 010's. However, I think just like the 010's, the 5K has the ability to convery every nuisance, but various subtleties are just not as well defined or prominent on the 5K as compared to the 010's.

The bass is DEFINITELY deeper and more extended with the 010's as overlunge mentions. The differential on some tracks is quite large which shocks me because I feel the 5K does bass much better than my RS-1's (which btw I thought did bass pretty darn good)!

The one attribute that Q fans are going to tout, is their ultra-fast responsive and dynamic abilities. I think there is NO QUESTION, these headphones really attack the music (as good as even the mighty Orpheus - if you don't believe me, talk to some HE-90/Qualia owners, don't take my word for it).

What amazes me is that the 5K, especially in the mid-range is quite impressive in terms of their reaction time. Its only when you get into the bass and upper frequencies do the 5K's lack the punch the Q's have.

Anyway, these are my initial impressions. I am absolutely impressed by the 5K for the money (friend paid like $350ish for them). They well maybe indeed the best pair of cans I've heard for under 2k.

A word about the RS-1's, their mid range is sweeter than both the 010 and 5K combined which on some tracks, just feels right. I'm actually believe if you listen to a lot of vocals (think Ella, Sinatra, etc.), the RS-1 truely shines minus its lack of soundstage.

EDIT: I'm really glad jjcha responded to this thread!

He has had I think the most experience with both of these cans and can offer some valuable insight. I'm still really forming my opinion of the Qualia's and the 5K's as we speak (listening to the 5K's as I write this).

EDIT AGAIN: About the best under 2K comment. I just realized the L3K's are actually under 2K and I've never heard the Omega II's. Right now I would say from what I heard, the L3K takes top honors in the under 2K club that I've heard.