[studeb]

i have seen several early Headroom amps for sale lately, they seem to be going for a little more than an Altoid amp. Does anyone here have one, and can you tell me/us where they stand sonically?
By early these seem to be from the early mid 90's and are usually "standard", so Max, Cosmic, Reference etc do not apply.

s

 

[TheSloth]

No, they don't. There is nothing wrong with the main board or casing designs, but the modular electronics are not up to their or anyone else's current sonic standards.

Even modules from 2002 aren't really up there.

http://www4.head-fi.org/forums/showthread.php?t=136059

 

[kevin1592]

Sorry to Hijack, but do you guys think that the new Total AirHeads could properly drive the HD580's? Thanks

 

[TheSloth]

Yes, absolutely.

 

[studeb]

i kinda figured that they would not compare favourably to the newer versions, Mr Hertsens is not a snake oil salesman afterall. But for the money how would the older Headroom amp compare with say an Altoid or other sub $100 amp. Or how would an early Cosmic fare against an SR-71 or other modern $200 amp.

 

[angler31337]

Quote:

Originally Posted by kevin1592 Sorry to Hijack, but do you guys think that the new Total AirHeads could properly drive the HD580's? Thanks

From what little I've heard, it sounds like it should be able to drive them nicely. Frankly I'm pretty surprised that HeadRoom decided to keep the AirHead name on the new model.

-Anlger

EDIT: I spel bad.

 

[rickcr42]

Quote:

No, they don't. There is nothing wrong with the main board or casing designs, but the modular electronics are not up to their or anyone else's current sonic standards.

Bull !

The old MAX and Cosmic will still whip the pants off of 80% of the amps out there not usng tube and many that do !The proof is in the listening and there is a reason these amps do not often show up on the used market even though a boatload were sold

Is the "no they don't" strictly from ad copy or actual listening ?

 

[TheSloth]

Quote:

Originally Posted by rickcr42 Bull ! The old MAX and Cosmic will still whip the pants off of 80% of the amps out there not usng tube and many that do !The proof is in the listening and there is a reason these amps do not often show up on the used market even though a boatload were sold Is the "no they don't" strictly from ad copy or actual listening ?

Sorry Rick, but I disagree there. While the mainboard desgins and power supplies of these are excellent, and perfectly current, the electronics are often not, depending on exactly what generation of module they have. Note he was referring to the 'standard' models, which would have included standard modules.

Quote:

Originally Posted by studeb By early these seem to be from the early mid 90's and are usually "standard", so Max, Cosmic, Reference etc do not apply.

No Max or Cosmic ever shipped with a standard module - the Max would have had a reference module, and the Cosmic would have either had a Premium or Reference Module. Of all of those older modules, the only module that is up there and offers seriously high fidelity compared to other SS amps in the same price range is the Reference Module, introduced in 1997 with the Max and the first to use the 627 opamp and the newer HQ surface mount caps and resistors. I totally agree with your comment on quality if we are referring to such a module with great power supplies, as would be the case in even the original Max, however with reference to any models with a standard module I think you're a little way off. They of course don't sound bad, but are sold at prices that I consider too high for the SQ they offer in today's market.

I linked my Module Archive Thread in my first post in this thread as fairly clear proof that my impressions of the electronics are from listening alone. Please don't accuse me of ignorance without reading through my post.

 

[rickcr42]

In my opinion and from mylistening Headroom models from every era at each price point will still stand up to the competition even if that competition was "yesterdays" news.

even the lowly first generation AirHead is better than much of what passes for a high fidelity headphone amp with any issues being known issues and inherent to the design but matched to the right headphone zero limitations.

I don't get hung up on the "theory" or the "technical" because I understand it.
That means all the ad copy that every manufacturer needs to publish to satisfy the customer curiosity even though it is all a foreign language to them has almost squat to do with how a piece of audio equipment will perform or sound.Can tell you if a thing is crap but not if it is good or even great and for that I use the best test equipment available-my ears

toss in bullet proof build quality backed up by an established company and it is no surprise the headroom amps hit the second hand market in far less numbers than other "highly regarded" amps.

I would take an original Cosmic right now without a second thought and if it had to be my only headphone amp could deal with that.At the same time i could live with the original Airhead for all my portable duty and never really feel like I was missing out on something

Just me though.YMMV

 

[TheSloth]

Not just you. The total package is something that for me ALL HeadRoom amps have over the competition. But you know I think that. I wouldn't consider another commercial amp maker at this point, due to the combination of sound quality, features, design, and rock-solid build and support that the HeadRoom amps offer. And indeed if I could go back to the time before I found Head-Fi, I could absolutely still live with my Supreme from 2004, which I bought used and WAS a steal for the price, as my only amplifier. It's the overall package which keeps them from flooding into EBAY.

But $400 for a Cosmic with a module from before 1997 to me seems ridiculous, and yet that is what people sell them for. I just can't possibly say in good conscience that that amp will sound as good as the other current options (including HeadRoom's own) at that price point - it won't. I admit I have not heard the original HeadRoom modules before 1997, however I have heard their future incarnations which were simply parts upgrades without any significant redesign, and I have a pretty good handle on how they compare with current offerings. And to me it's a shame that people end up paying this money simply because they don't understand what's inside. And I never read any ad copy. I just sat there with an amp and a pile of modules and listened.

 

[TheSloth]

Quote:

Originally Posted by studeb i have seen several early Headroom amps for sale lately, they seem to be going for a little more than an Altoid amp. Does anyone here have one, and can you tell me/us where they stand sonically? By early these seem to be from the early mid 90's and are usually "standard", so Max, Cosmic, Reference etc do not apply. s

Rick has made me re-think this one and re-read this post. I didn't really realise that you were comparing them to Altoid CMOY's. If the old HeadRoom amp is that cheap then it's a great buy, and yes I'd recommend it over an eBay CMOY any day. You can upgrade the electronics later if you like, you can trade-in the amp for a 20% discount on a Micro or Desktop if you want to, and in the mean time you can enjoy the nicely manufactured enclosure and crossfeed.

 

[rickcr42]

Quote:

But $400 for a Cosmic with a module from before 1997 to me seems ridiculous

obviously,and why no one would pay that but $200 would not be ridiculous for a second hand amp.As with all things you need to know what a thing is worth and not overpay which beleive it or not,i have seen eBay bids for things higher than they could have purchased a brand new item for !
no conception of value whatsoever.

Quote:

Not just you. The total package is something that for me ALL HeadRoom amps have over the competition. But you know I think that. I wouldn't consider another commercial amp maker at this point, due to the combination of sound quality, features, design, and rock-solid build and support that the HeadRoom amps offer.

i have a short list consisting of "two" but the headroom backing is hard to beat.The "Tail light gurantee" you get from most is just not acceptable

Quote:

sidebar : For those who do not know what the above statement means it is known in the "trades" as a person that does a service and will gurantee all work until they are actually payed the final payment.As they pull away with your check in hand headed straight for the bank you warrantee lasted until you could no longer see that persons Tail Lights as they pull away..............

Quote:

And, I'm not sure you really could live with an original cosmic. I was chatting to Jamey who was telling me about a walk-in whose original cosmic kept blowing up. Aparently that original module had some slightly unfortunate ground-plane channeling that, with age and time can make them somewhat more likely to short circuit themselves...

I actually had not heard of this before but that it comes directly from Headroom is no surprise.They probably dealt with it once identified as a problem then made good on the amp making the customer pleased in the end so there was no forum carping about being ripped off.
This is way more common than it should be but wanting to cut corners in price payed out means you are mostly dealing with someone who is also cutting corners somewhere so they can make you happy buying a cheap amp

 

[TheSloth]

Quote:

Originally Posted by rickcr42 This is way more common than it should be but wanting to cut corners in price payed out means you are mostly dealing with someone who is also cutting corners somewhere so they can make you happy buying a cheap amp

I think this one had more to do with product version 1.0 syndrome...

 

[rickcr42]

Quote:

I think this one had more to do with product version 1.0 syndrome...