Chris J
Headphoneus Supremus
I should point out that Stan is an Engineer, and speaking as another Engineer, I will tell you that he knows what he is talking about.
Do I really need a DAC?
- Thread starter tapd260
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I should point out that Stan is an Engineer, and speaking as another Engineer, I will tell you that he knows what he is talking about.
cel4145
Headphoneus Supremus
^^
What he said. Another vote for StanD's explanation.
What he said. Another vote for StanD's explanation.
DreamKing
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I should point out that Stan is an Engineer, and speaking as another Engineer, I will tell you that he knows what he is talking about.
Well, then there is nothing more to discuss. Seal of approval of from the order of Engineers for science, here at head fi.
stanD, also majored as shepherd I reckon
StanD
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Don't be mean.
DreamKing
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Don't be mean.Believe what you want, you have been informed, the rest is up to you.
I'm having a go
You have obviously forgotten what has happened in this thread haha. I am anything but in disagreement on this topic. And unintentionally initiated all of this; all I wanted was to share knowledge especially to someone new to head fi like the OP.
Chris J
Headphoneus Supremus
I ain't tryin' to shut down the discussion, just tryin' to keep it factual and reasonable.
unfortunately, there can be alot of confusion on Head Fi.
DreamKing
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DreamKing
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Yes, I figured.
Just wanted say, I'm not trying to shut down a free discussion. NP
I do agree on keeping it as factual and reasonable as we can, especially when helping the uninitiated.
Because we all know how much we can agree on the subjective side of things...if at all.
willismith22
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I would like to bring up the original question again..
My setup is Hifi Tidal streaming or ALAC files on my macbook air with a pair of IE-800's.
I have tested a few DAC's but to be honest, I can't hear a difference.
Does anyone else with a similar setup really hear an improvement?
My setup is Hifi Tidal streaming or ALAC files on my macbook air with a pair of IE-800's.
I have tested a few DAC's but to be honest, I can't hear a difference.
Does anyone else with a similar setup really hear an improvement?
JulianPard
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Music Alchemist DreamKing StanD I don't mean to bump old threads or anything, but you guys seem to know about this quite a bit. This is a comment from YouTube by someone named derbigpr50o.
"Just want to share something with people who own or think of buying these headphones. The reason why most people feel like their AKG's have no bass is because people are not amping them properly. People see in the specs that they're 62 ohm headphones, and think they're easy to drive. Well, let me tell you, as someone who owns the Sennheiser HD650 (300-550 ohms), Beyerdynamic DT880 (600 ohm) and Beyerdynamic T1 (600 - 1300 ohms), which are my highest impedance headphones (highest on the market too), and you might also assume hardest to drive, AKG K701's/Q701's are harder to power than any of them. Why? They lack sensitivity. Their sensitivity is extremelly low compared to other headphones at a similar price, and they really need a very powerful amplifier. A lot of people plug them into cheap 100-200 dollar Fiio, O2, etc. amps or soundcards (even Asus Essence ST or STX fits this category) that might look like they have power on paper, but in reality, they don't sound good at all with these headphones. These are probably one of 2 or 3 headphones under 1000 dollars that REALLY will benefit from using a high end amp. This is why you shouldn't really buy these headphones unless you can invest in a proper headphone amplifier, becuase you will be missing out on what makes these headphones so special and what made them so be so loved back before stuff like HD800's and T1's came out and skyrocketed the prices of headphones from 400-500 dollars to 1500-2000 dollars. Most headphones sound the same when plugged into a entry level $100 headamp and a $1000 higher end headamp. These? Nope...their bass extension, presence and tightness greatly increases when used with a really good amplifier, and their overall speed, attack and dynamics increase greatly compared to cheap amps while listening to the same volume, they simply sound far more lively and fun. With cheap amps like O2 you have to listen at high volumes, otherwise they sound dull, boring, flat, lacking bass or any sort of punch. With better amps, you get the fullness of music at lower volumes as well. I was shocked to find how much better my K701 and Q701's sounded when I switched from a 300 dollar chinese Little Dot Mk5 amplifier (which sounded absolutely fine with other headphones) to a 1000 dollar Musical Fidelity M1 headphone amplifier. Basically, you'll get a better sound by spending 1500 dollars on a K701 + a high end amp than by spending 1500 dollars on a 1100-1200 dollar pair of headphones and a cheap amplifier. Why? K701's are still absolutely world class headphones, if it wasn't for slight coloration in the upper midrange, I'd say they're the best at under 1000 dollars. Nothing up to that price beats them when it comes to dynamics, soundstage size, transient response, flatness of frequency response, etc. Ironically, what works against them is their low price. They're too cheap. Until a few years ago they were absolutely the best consumer grade (excluding exotic stuff like Stax) headphones in the world, better than HD600, HD650, DT880, DT990, etc. when paired with proper equipment. Now they sit too low compared to new high end headphones which costs 4-5 times more, and people who don't know anything about the history of these headphones assume they're considerably worse and that they can use them with poor equipment like it's the case with other 200-300 dollar headphones. Well, that's simply not true, and that's the reason why most people who own the K701 never get to hear what these headphones can really do."
Is what he's saying true? I'm just getting into real audio, and am recieving my first real headphone tomorrow (the K7XX's.. which is what this commenter is referring to). I'm hoping this won't be the case cause I'm not looking forward to a 1000$ dollar amp as he claims to get the most from these headphones... 200$ for the akg' were already a stretch for me lol.
"Just want to share something with people who own or think of buying these headphones. The reason why most people feel like their AKG's have no bass is because people are not amping them properly. People see in the specs that they're 62 ohm headphones, and think they're easy to drive. Well, let me tell you, as someone who owns the Sennheiser HD650 (300-550 ohms), Beyerdynamic DT880 (600 ohm) and Beyerdynamic T1 (600 - 1300 ohms), which are my highest impedance headphones (highest on the market too), and you might also assume hardest to drive, AKG K701's/Q701's are harder to power than any of them. Why? They lack sensitivity. Their sensitivity is extremelly low compared to other headphones at a similar price, and they really need a very powerful amplifier. A lot of people plug them into cheap 100-200 dollar Fiio, O2, etc. amps or soundcards (even Asus Essence ST or STX fits this category) that might look like they have power on paper, but in reality, they don't sound good at all with these headphones. These are probably one of 2 or 3 headphones under 1000 dollars that REALLY will benefit from using a high end amp. This is why you shouldn't really buy these headphones unless you can invest in a proper headphone amplifier, becuase you will be missing out on what makes these headphones so special and what made them so be so loved back before stuff like HD800's and T1's came out and skyrocketed the prices of headphones from 400-500 dollars to 1500-2000 dollars. Most headphones sound the same when plugged into a entry level $100 headamp and a $1000 higher end headamp. These? Nope...their bass extension, presence and tightness greatly increases when used with a really good amplifier, and their overall speed, attack and dynamics increase greatly compared to cheap amps while listening to the same volume, they simply sound far more lively and fun. With cheap amps like O2 you have to listen at high volumes, otherwise they sound dull, boring, flat, lacking bass or any sort of punch. With better amps, you get the fullness of music at lower volumes as well. I was shocked to find how much better my K701 and Q701's sounded when I switched from a 300 dollar chinese Little Dot Mk5 amplifier (which sounded absolutely fine with other headphones) to a 1000 dollar Musical Fidelity M1 headphone amplifier. Basically, you'll get a better sound by spending 1500 dollars on a K701 + a high end amp than by spending 1500 dollars on a 1100-1200 dollar pair of headphones and a cheap amplifier. Why? K701's are still absolutely world class headphones, if it wasn't for slight coloration in the upper midrange, I'd say they're the best at under 1000 dollars. Nothing up to that price beats them when it comes to dynamics, soundstage size, transient response, flatness of frequency response, etc. Ironically, what works against them is their low price. They're too cheap. Until a few years ago they were absolutely the best consumer grade (excluding exotic stuff like Stax) headphones in the world, better than HD600, HD650, DT880, DT990, etc. when paired with proper equipment. Now they sit too low compared to new high end headphones which costs 4-5 times more, and people who don't know anything about the history of these headphones assume they're considerably worse and that they can use them with poor equipment like it's the case with other 200-300 dollar headphones. Well, that's simply not true, and that's the reason why most people who own the K701 never get to hear what these headphones can really do."
Is what he's saying true? I'm just getting into real audio, and am recieving my first real headphone tomorrow (the K7XX's.. which is what this commenter is referring to). I'm hoping this won't be the case cause I'm not looking forward to a 1000$ dollar amp as he claims to get the most from these headphones... 200$ for the akg' were already a stretch for me lol.
DreamKing
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Hi Julian,
$1000 is excessive for the K7XX. The person wrote a lot, that's all I got from it. Price, price, price, price [...] That's all he seems to relate to quality. He's confusing price with technical ability. It's apparently a technical specification for him. That's about as good as throwing your money down the ditch.
What amp are you using currently? 500mW gets you to 120dB with these headphone so they don't demand much power and plenty of amps can do that and much more, at a much lower price than $1000.
JulianPard
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No amp, currently. Headphones arrive on Monday, and after playing it directly, I'm planning on purchasing an amp. The one I had in mind was the Fiio E10K. Saw a few recommendations around Head fi, and it was a recommendation for the K7XX in Audiobot9000.com (unsure exactly if audiobott really is able to tell which amps are best with which headphone...)
JulianPard
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After listening to it directly THEN I'll decide if I need/want an amp **
DreamKing
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I'd recommend the Schiit Magni 2 (not the Uber version) at $99 over the E10K to cover yourself more since they provide more relevant specs to the K7XX. It's gonna be easier to make a decision when trying that out. Audiobot9000 recommendations are estimations for the most part. That's the case for the E10K at least since they're recommending it based on output levels at 32 ohms when the K7XX is 62 ohms.
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