Do I need a headphone or speaker to appreciate high-end DACs?

[kandamrgam]

This is a common opinion I hear on forums:

That to appreciate TOTL DACs you need a very resolving transducer.

My question is, to appreciate such quality, do I need speakers, or will headphones be enough?

Typical TOTL DACs i hear are from dcs, Chord, Mola Mola, Holo, Lampizator, MSB, Rockna, Weiss etc. To enjoy that level of fidelity, do I need speakers?

When I say "enjoy", I dont mean subjectively feeling good. I am asking about the differences being big enough to spot on in blind A/B testing, compared to 200$ Schiit or JDS.

 

[msing539]

Headphones will be enough to notice a difference depending on the headphone. The original HD800 changes a lot with source, for example.

 

[Whazzzup]

Err those are high end dacs?

 

[MindBreak]

The highest end DAC I have owned is the Yggdrasil+ MIB, and I upgraded from a Bifrost 2/64. The difference was verry apparent through my headphones including the Arya Stealth and up. Headphones like my SJY Audio Starry Night V1 it was less drastic of a change, but it was still noticeable. Some headphones as well as speakers are more resolving than others, so it will depend on which model you are using. The amp choice will also play a role as well.

 

[dunring]

For a really good DAC a USB optical cable and amplifier that's really quiet to resolve details. On Audiosciencereview Amir does a 50mv test to check that, the top ranked on that test will do really well with a good DAC.

 

[Diet Kokaine]

**Speakers 100%**

Most DACs under $2,000 sound good with the majority of headphones on the market, which is why people who only use headphones often claim DACs don’t matter—they usually can’t distinguish between different models.

Speakers, however (especially high-quality ones), are ruthlessly revealing. A lot of DACs that sound good with headphones, sound like garbled pots and pans with high end speakers.

 

[kandamrgam]

For a really good DAC a USB optical cable and amplifier that's really quiet to resolve details. On Audiosciencereview Amir does a 50mv test to check that, the top ranked on that test will do really well with a good DAC.

Very hard to follow you. Could you rephrase it?

Err those are high end dacs?

I am sorry, but what are the high-ends then? Maybe a Nagra? Aries Cerat, Esoteric, Wadax?

 

[bagwell359]

Headphones and speakers will reveal the differences between DACs.

Headphones such as: HD-800, HEK SE or Stealth, ZMF Caldera Open and even the HE-6 SE and HE-500 will do the job assuming proper amplification.

Speakers: My BMR Philharmonic Monitors for sure, but even things like vintage ProAc Tablette and Rogers LS-35A will do it too.

The differences between each of the following DACS - Yggy A1, A2, LIM & Gungnir MB A1, A2, Gungnir DS are all apparent. My choice of those is the Gungnir G2 - $1600.

As for what @dunring said. I think he meant USB or optical. I'd add Coax too. Quiet amp? Hard to find SS amps that are not quiet. ASR can be good for measurements, however a leader that listens at 114 db is likely not to be trusted on sound.

 

[Not so fat head]

It’s been my experience that there is more to gain between the amp and transducer.
R2R, delta sigma and custom DAC’s…. Meh

 

[bagwell359]

It’s been my experience that there is more to gain between the amp and transducer.
R2R, delta sigma and custom DAC’s…. Meh

I find the opposite - assuming the amp has enough juice for the transducer - and we leave out corner cases such as estats, and combos like OTL tubes with planars.

 

[ardbeg1975]

I listen exclusively to headphones and I’ve owned 11 DACs ranging from $230 to 100x that over the past several years. My grain of salt opinion is yes, given suitably resolving headphones and excellent amplification and a bit of luck in system synergies, you can hear the sonic “benefits” of higher end DACs with headphones at least up to DACs in the ~$20K range. That said, I’d concede the “sweet spot” of sonics (value) to cost is in the $2-4K range wherein sit many, very fine DACs like the Yggy, Laiv Harmony, Musician Taurus, and others. Other audiophiles, who I know and respect, frequently say that the manufacturers will admit when pressed that their target audience for DACs in their line up above ~$20K are exclusively 2-channel listeners.

 

[sajesak]

This is a common opinion I hear on forums:

That to appreciate TOTL DACs you need a very resolving transducer.

My question is, to appreciate such quality, do I need speakers, or will headphones be enough?

Typical TOTL DACs i hear are from dcs, Chord, Mola Mola, Holo, Lampizator, MSB, Rockna, Weiss etc. To enjoy that level of fidelity, do I need speakers?

When I say "enjoy", I dont mean subjectively feeling good. I am asking about the differences being big enough to spot on in blind A/B testing, compared to 200$ Schiit or JDS. I’ve used a few windshields on my Ranger, and I’d highly recommend a vented glass Polaris Ranger 1000 Crew Windshield if you’re dealing with dust or extreme weather. It provides great visibility, doesn’t scratch like poly, and the vents help with airflow to reduce cab heat. If you’re going off-road a lot, make sure it has a solid seal to prevent rattling. I went with a tip-out windshield, and it’s been great for ventilation. What are you looking for—full, flip, or half?

Headphones can be resolving enough to appreciate the differences in TOTL DACs, sometimes even more so than speakers due to their inherent detail retrieval and lack of room acoustics. High-end models like the Susvara, Abyss 1266, or Stax electrostatics can expose subtle nuances in DAC performance, especially in areas like microdynamics, spatial precision, and timbre. However, whether those differences are big enough to be reliably identified in a blind A/B test is another question. The law of diminishing returns applies heavily here, and many would argue that improvements beyond a well-engineered $200 DAC are subtle rather than night-and-day.

 

[kandamrgam]

However, whether those differences are big enough to be reliably identified in a blind A/B test is another question.

That is the only test, no? I don't consider any other test valid

 

[bagwell359]

that improvements beyond a well-engineered $200 DAC are subtle rather than night-and-day.

For DS DACS, probably. RTR, FPGA DACS - in my experience quite a lot of non subtle differences - some of these comparisons were A/B level matched. Some were not.

 

[Diet Kokaine]

However, whether those differences are big enough to be reliably identified in a blind A/B test is another question. The law of diminishing returns applies heavily here, and many would argue that improvements beyond a well-engineered $200 DAC are subtle rather than night-and-day.

See what I mean.
Most headphone users think 200 dollar DACs are close enough to a 20,000 dollar DAC.
Try that on a High end Speaker setup.
Pots and pans