do headphones *really* break in....
Mar 28, 2003 at 8:19 AM Post #61 of 80
Mar 28, 2003 at 9:25 AM Post #62 of 80
cool! i hadn't actually seen any graphs that illustrated any burn-in effect so far
smily_headphones1.gif


yeah i was also wondering though, why headroom (or anyone else with the equipment and 2 identical phones
wink.gif
) couldn't just take measurements with one burned-in phone, and the other fresh. it'd surely settle the debate forever
wink.gif


hmm... has anyone else actually done a test like this?
 
Mar 28, 2003 at 2:07 PM Post #63 of 80
Wow! Moonwalker. Thanks for sharing that. It does support the burn in theory but because of other variables it is not indisputable proof. To really be sure, a company like Headroom would have to perform the same test on headphones they were reasonably sure were identical and might even want to two pairs of each the used and new headphones.
 
Mar 28, 2003 at 3:02 PM Post #64 of 80
Quote:

Originally posted by JKohn
I think that even if you can factually prove that physical changes occur (and I'm not willing to concede that), you'd still have to prove that those physical changes produce audible differences in the sound.

One thing I've noticed, it seems like the more expensive the gear, the more likely people are to say that it needs burn-in. I can't help but wonder if the sequence of events go something like this:

1) 2) 3) BLABLABLABLABLABLABLA BLABLABLA ETC ETC ETC


This is even more speculative than our (burn-in believers) intents of theory. Do you really believe the human behavior is easier to analyze than the headphone one? 1,2,3, yeah! Come on, talk about you’re experience or anything more concrete!. How do you get to this conclusion? Do you interview 100 people, 50, 20 or just two or three friends of you acted that way?
Another experience: I had (well, still have) semicrappy Sony Discman headphones. I’ve owned them since ten years ago. I really believed they sounded OK. Then I got into HeadFimania and bought Senn HD-495. After the very first Senn listen the Sony became awful, horrid, ugly. What happened? I just changed my reference point, my standard.
My point is: If this people continue hearing the same cans (reference point) how do they change their minds? Becoming deaf or stupid?


 
Mar 28, 2003 at 3:15 PM Post #65 of 80
Quote:

Originally posted by sacriste
This is even more speculative than our (burn-in believers) intents of theory. Do you really believe the human behavior is easier to analyze than the headphone one? 1,2,3, yeah! Come on, talk about you’re experience or anything more concrete!. How do you get to this conclusion? Do you interview 100 people, 50, 20 or just two or three friends of you acted that way?
Another experience: I had (well, still have) semicrappy Sony Discman headphones. I’ve owned them since ten years ago. I really believed they sounded OK. Then I got into HeadFimania and bought Senn HD-495. After the very first Senn listen the Sony became awful, horrid, ugly. What happened? I just changed my reference point, my standard.
My point is: If this people continue hearing the same cans (reference point) how do they change their minds? Becoming deaf or stupid?


Your own experience contradicts your conclusion.
 
Mar 28, 2003 at 3:59 PM Post #66 of 80
It seems that I need to practice my English... I'll explain this like Tarzan:

Me...SACRISTE, Me... SACRISTE
Sony GOOOD, Sony GOOOOD, Senn BEEETER, Senn BEEETER, Sony BAAAAD, Sony BAAAD.

Your burner-in friends...XXXX, Your burner-in friends...XXXX,
New Cans BAAAD, New Cans BAAD, New Cans GOOD, New Cans GOOOD.

Understooooood?
 
Mar 28, 2003 at 4:16 PM Post #67 of 80
Quote:

Originally posted by sacriste
It seems that I need to practice my English... I'll explain this like Tarzan:

Me...SACRISTE, Me... SACRISTE
Sony GOOOD, Sony GOOOOD, Senn BEEETER, Senn BEEETER, Sony BAAAAD, Sony BAAAD.

Your burner-in friends...XXXX, Your burner-in friends...XXXX,
New Cans BAAAD, New Cans BAAD, New Cans GOOD, New Cans GOOOD.

Understood?


Sufficient eveidence supporting the hypothesis wanting, there must needs be aggreagate data structures tending to upsweep the area under the curve and invariance measurements of uncertainty.
 
Mar 28, 2003 at 6:16 PM Post #68 of 80
Quote:

Originally posted by erikzen
Wow! Moonwalker. Thanks for sharing that. It does support the burn in theory but because of other variables it is not indisputable proof.


Indisputable proof exists when the chance of error reaches 0. Since chance exists, even our most methodical approach will not positively prove anything.

Yes, it would be desirable to conduct further study. It might be good to frame the hypothesis this way:

"Burn-in doesn't happen."

And then take some measurements. If we then see similar variations over time with several similar headphones... we'll have to reject our hypothesis.
evil_smiley.gif


It ought to be pretty easy to experiment with this. Until that happens, burn-in's reality or lack thereof will be squarely confined to the realm of personal belief.

Ideally, the scientist ought to be open to either possibility, of having to reject or accept the hypothesis. I admit it - my bias is that burn-in should exist.
 
Mar 28, 2003 at 7:01 PM Post #69 of 80
Quote:

Originally posted by phonatic
Indisputable proof exists when the chance of error reaches 0. Since chance exists, even our most methodical approach will not positively prove anything.

Yes, it would be desirable to conduct further study. It might be good to frame the hypothesis this way:

"Burn-in doesn't happen."

And then take some measurements. If we then see similar variations over time with several similar headphones... we'll have to reject our hypothesis.
evil_smiley.gif


It ought to be pretty easy to experiment with this. Until that happens, burn-in's reality or lack thereof will be squarely confined to the realm of personal belief.

Ideally, the scientist ought to be open to either possibility, of having to reject or accept the hypothesis. I admit it - my bias is that burn-in should exist.


My "bias" is that is should too, but I cannot accept the explanations of those who claim to have experienced these phenomena.

Much more likely:
1. Their brains are accommodating to the sound
2. The differences they hear are not permanent ones, but are based on temperature of the phones and climactic conditions.
3. My personal thinking is that indeed there is SOME SMALL CHANGE in the moving system over time. It's audability is highly doubtful. None has been observed in the headphones I have owned.
 
Mar 28, 2003 at 7:32 PM Post #70 of 80
This thread is becoming boring. What about wives, do they burn-in? How do they start and what do they become after two years? What's the best way of burn-in a wife?
 
Mar 28, 2003 at 8:19 PM Post #71 of 80
Quote:

Originally posted by sacriste
This thread is becoming boring. What about wives, do they burn-in? How do they start and what do they become after two years? What's the best way of burn-in a wife?


Slap a set of headphones on her and crank up the tunes for a good 48-72 hours. After that, her drivers will loosen up and the sound coming out of her won't be as fatiguing. However, be careful. A wife before burn-in can be very aggressive and bright. The use of restraints is recommended.
 
Mar 28, 2003 at 9:28 PM Post #72 of 80
I would have to agree with a previous statement about the Senn HD-280 pro's improving dramatically. Mine could not play Rammstein worth **** when I first got them, but after I burned them in with bass tests and certain Rammstein songs, they really blew me away! And the bass (all sounds really) has gotten to the point where I can turn it way above normal listening level and it never distorts (only true for mp3's of at least 128kbps and up).
 
Mar 28, 2003 at 11:48 PM Post #73 of 80
Once again we are trying to link a mechanical device burn in with some significant consistencies that can be measured with the human ear which has no consistencies beyond extremes. Like a boat whistle is loud and a dime dropped on carpet is quiet. After that it gets so subjective it makes most discussion absurd. It becomes a race for creative adjectives to communicate something very complex. The adjectives are exchanged but never clearly defined and can't be as they vary from ear to ear. Saying the word "warm" or "relaxed" to describe sound is like using a stone axe to make a fine china hutch. It is extremely broad and crude.

The ear is extremely sensitive. This goes way beyond temperature and climactic changes. Just walking while listening can cause a difference in the perceived sound. Having your mind on something else like watching a TV at the same time can effect your perception. Someone stressed would hear a different sound than when he is relaxed in his favorite chair with no distractions. One or more favored CD's may give the perception of better sound. Darkness gives many people better concentration and a more relaxed mood. All these factors and a thousand more can effect your "perception" of a given sound. That is not even considering just plain psychological misinterpretation. Many times we hear, see or feel what we want and not what is real. We can electronically monitor the mechanical sound produced to some extent for consistency and change. The human ear is effected by all your senses including motion at the same time. These cannot be monitored. Because the phones are changing mechanically does not mean that change is audible to that person at that time. Or any person at any time unless given multiple blind tests.

This is why these comparisons are so subjective. They are subject to the individual conditions and the individual persons senses reaction to those conditions as well as the mechanically produced sound itself. Way too many variables to draw broad conclusions like headphones sound better after a burn in period. Whatever floats your boat though. If sticking them in a drawer for 72 hours makes you happy with them it can't hurt.
 
Mar 29, 2003 at 12:25 AM Post #74 of 80
If burn-in would make them sound better. Why don't headphone manufactures warn us about burn-in their cans?

Like "Please listen to our phones for 200 hrs. before you desire to return them to the dealer for a refund".

Or "All our headphones are already BREAK IN and ready to use".

They have top engineer teams who really know what we're talking here.

Peace.
biggrin.gif
 
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