[kwitel]

Ive been reading more and more around here that Grados' sounstage is virtually non-existant.
Mind you, im relatively new to the game, have not heard many headphones and do have an affinity to anything Grado.
However, I do love/or i think i love, soundstage.
Come to think of it, soundstage sounds like a great attribute for any good can, but do I really know what it is being that I only listen to Grados?
For those of you who have listened to cans with good/great soundstage, how do the Grados (pick your model) stand up to the competition?
If I get the answers I think im going to get (that they dont compete too well), it may be time for me to whip out the ole wallet and get me some soundstagey cans.
Oh boy.
Theyve got pills for everything these days...how come Pfizer hasnt come out with anything for Upgradeitis?

 

[kin0kin]

they simply don't have much soundstage. The 325i/Ms2i($300) has the largest soundstage in the prestige series, but still doesn't come close the the senn 555($100+).

 

[marvin]

Well, this is how I would rank the cans I have owned.

Best sound stage (horizontal only though): AKG K1000
Good sound stage: Senn HD-580
Well, there is a sound stage... : Grado SR-225
What sound stage? : Ety ER-4S/ER-6, Koss PortaPro/KSC-35

Not that it's a bad thing for the Grados. The material that they're the best with, rock, sounds better when it's cohesive and not when you can pick out locations for each instrument. The K1000s with rock is... interesting.

 

[Jam_Master_J]

Quote:

Originally Posted by marvin Well, this is how I would rank the cans I have owned. Best sound stage (horizontal only though): AKG K1000 Good sound stage: Senn HD-580 Well, there is a sound stage... : Grado SR-225 What sound stage? : Ety ER-4S/ER-6, Koss PortaPro/KSC-35

Looks to be pretty much just a function of distance of drivers from ear. I agree though, Grados just have a small soundstage. My SR-325s seem slightly better than my old SR-80s and MS-1s in this regard but overall they are pretty compressed sounding(more so with the flat pads than the bowls).

-JMJ

 

[fewtch]

Quote:

Originally Posted by marvin What sound stage? : Ety ER-4S/ER-6, Koss PortaPro/KSC-35

Strange... I'd put the Portapro in the "good soundstage" category.

 

[iamdone]

The RS-1 have pretty good soundstage when matched with a good source. Even though you get that front row seat, you can hear all the instruments in front of you and there is a true 3D effect. The RS-2 comes close but has a smaller soundstage. When I tested the SR-225, it didn't seem like it had much soundstage at all.

I also had the hd650 and although it has better soundstage, it's too big for most rock music. I felt too far away from the band. Much better for classical.

 

[shplorgh]

It's really not that bad, even compared to the HD650's. I like the presentation just as much tbh.

 

[aerius]

Prestige series, there's not much of a soundstage, especially with flat pads. Reference series, pretty darn nice soundstage. It's more of a front row feel compared to Senns, but it still has good depth and separation on all 3 axis, and doesn't suffer from the "3-blob effect" that Senns do.

 

[kwitel]

Quote:

Originally Posted by marvin Well, this is how I would rank the cans I have owned. Best sound stage (horizontal only though): AKG K1000 Good sound stage: Senn HD-580 Well, there is a sound stage... : Grado SR-225 What sound stage? : Ety ER-4S/ER-6, Koss PortaPro/KSC-35 Not that it's a bad thing for the Grados. The material that they're the best with, rock, sounds better when it's cohesive and not when you can pick out locations for each instrument. The K1000s with rock is... interesting.

simple, yet excellent point.
it would be nice if you could just raise/lower soundstage like volume...
i feel like im missing out when listening to classical and ambient music.
Will my incoming HF-1's improve at all in the soundsatge department, or should I be thinking about possibly getting some Senns?

 

[fante7]

I will give a similar ranking for soundstage of the headphones I've owned, from best to worst, for another point of reference:

DT880
DT990
HD555
- big gap in soundstage quality -
HF-1
HD497

Also, I believe the HD650 is somewhere between the HD555 and DT990 for soundstage.

 

[Daniel L]

Can someone please define soundstage for a noob? My guess is that it's similar to the effect of having instruments sound like they have more distance from each other?

 

[iamdone]

Quote:

Originally Posted by kwitel simple, yet excellent point. it would be nice if you could just raise/lower soundstage like volume... i feel like im missing out when listening to classical and ambient music. Will my incoming HF-1's improve at all in the soundsatge department, or should I be thinking about possibly getting some Senns?

I don't know about the HF-1 but the biggest soundstage improvement I got with the RS-1 is when I added the seperate DAC. Better headphone amps can also help with soundstage. It seems like with the Grados, the bigger the cup, the better the soundstage and the HF-1 looks to have small cups.

 

[Beagle]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Daniel L Can someone please define soundstage for a noob? My guess is that it's similar to the effect of having instruments sound like they have more distance from each other?

SOUNDSTAGE

It is the placement of musical information (vocals, instruments) in an imaginary soundfield created by the stereo image created by the two headphone drivers, by matching the common information of left and right channels and also information unique to each channel.

Grados have plenty of soundstage and "headstage" as Zanth so aptly put it. Don't listen to anyone who tells you otherwise. These hyped "soundstage" phones have exaggerated soundstage which destroys the music, picking it apart and ruining the cohesiveness of the recording. If they think this is fun or exciting, so be it, but it's wrong. That's why I ended up dumping my K501's. Everything was too distant and weak over the long run. Etymotics probably have the most accurate soundstage (as far as headphone listening goes), since they place the drivers in closest proximity to the ear. These other phones place the driver from the ear. Of course you will get a huge "soundstage". But you are exaggerating the placement of musical information in the field and exaggerating the soundstage distortion inherent in headphone listening. You get a great portrayal of the parts of the recording and the musical message (if there is one) is gone with the wind.

And please, do not confuse headphone listening with loudspeaker listening or try and compare the two. Apples and oranges. People

bsessed with soundstage are usually trying to make their phones perform like loudspeakers. You may get a similar timbre or tone but that's about it.

 

[Jam_Master_J]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Beagle And please, do not confuse headphone listening with loudspeaker listening or try and compare the two. Apples and oranges. People bsessed with soundstage are usually trying to make their phones perform like loudspeakers. You may get a similar timbre or tone but that's about it.

Good call, that's why I have both a speaker and headpone rig

 

[Michael G.]

Grados can do "soundstaging" very convincingly at times. There have been times when I had forgotten I was wearing my Grado SR-325's, mistakenly thinking that my loudspeaker setup was on. And that's a compliment, because my loudspeaker setup does soundstaging wonderfully! The style of the recording contributes greatly to convincing soundstaging in headphone listening. Recordings that have hard-panned left and right stereo effects can make Grado headphones sound, well.., like headphones. But, recordings that are engineered to sound truly spacious and integrated with plenty of natural centerfill and ambience can make you forget you are listening to Grado headphones. More typically though, Grados will give you the benefits of an inimate and close-up sound, sometimes giving you the sense that you are "onstage" with the music - rather in front of a musical soundstage. And that peculiar perspective can be just dandy, in my opinion. Hey, soundstage beauty is in the eye of the beholder!