Do DACs matter?
Sep 5, 2021 at 4:24 PM Thread Starter Post #1 of 124

WoollyGeezer

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I read about a lot of people saying that high-end dacs are a waste of money.

If I run a 6000$ headphone with great balanced interconnects, and a 1500$ amplifier with a perfect FLAC file... will a 1000$ DAC be important?

Has anyone actually heard an audible difference? Even if it is 1-2%. Is it the final piece of the puzzle?
 
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Sep 5, 2021 at 6:06 PM Post #2 of 124
When it comes to audio systems everything matters, especially when it comes to improving quality of the source. No matter how good your electronics and headphones or speakers are you can never recover any compromise in dynamics, detail or subtleties coming from playback of the source. Some therefore find that improving source quality can be more critical to overall system performance than changes made elsewhere in the system. DAC performance still varies as they've continually been improving since the early days of digital when the promise was perfect sound. I don't know about a magic percentage breakdown of cost per piece to optimize a system, it often comes down to matching various qualities of the components to reach your desired sound. Different gear often needs to be auditioned in a given system to find your personal preference.
 
Sep 5, 2021 at 7:43 PM Post #3 of 124
From my blind tests between very cheap solutions to dedicated DAC no, they all sounded the same. But psychology behind a good looking gear does matter and that is why I still I purchased a 1000 euros DAC (which sounds like my 2012 high-end motherboard, i.e. perfect) because I like to use and look at it. The simple happiness of using this gear does have an « audible » effect since hearing lies in the brain and not in the ears.
 
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Sep 5, 2021 at 9:28 PM Post #4 of 124
Depends on if you like the sound the sound of it or not and how much you are into the hobby. I certainly wouldn't match up a 6,000 dollar set of headphones and a multi thousand dollar amp with a 99 dollar dac. Would there be a difference? For some people yes, for others no. I can tell you from the little bit of listening I have done lately different amps and dacs do indeed sound different. As do different sound sources even if they are digital.

The thing you have to decide is if that sound difference is a sound you enjoy or is it worth the expense. The higher up the chain you get the smaller the differences get. For someone like me, would a 6000 dollar dac sound better than a 500 dollar one? I highly doubt it. I think it would be completely wasted on me. For some one else maybe not.
 
Sep 5, 2021 at 9:50 PM Post #6 of 124
I think build quality and reliability are aspects not to be overlooked . In my early days I had a cheap dac thinking the dac had the least effect on the chain I upgraded the amp only to have the cheap dac fail and take the left channel of my new amp with it . Fortunately the amp builders Violectric repaired the amp under warranty no questions asked
 
Sep 5, 2021 at 10:09 PM Post #7 of 124
I think build quality and reliability are aspects not to be overlooked . In my early days I had a cheap dac thinking the dac had the least effect on the chain I upgraded the amp only to have the cheap dac fail and take the left channel of my new amp with it . Fortunately the amp builders Violectric repaired the amp under warranty no questions asked
This is exactly what I stated in a previous post. I would rather pay more for something with quality internals (capacitors, soldering, etc)

Considering the DAC is hooked up to very expensive equipment including a PC.
 
Sep 5, 2021 at 11:35 PM Post #8 of 124
I read about a lot of people saying that high-end dacs are a waste of money.

If I run a 6000$ headphone with great balanced interconnects, and a 1500$ amplifier with a perfect FLAC file... will a 1000$ DAC be important?

Has anyone actually heard an audible difference? Even if it is 1-2%. Is it the final piece of the puzzle?
This gets rehashed almost every year. Just search head-fi on does a DAC matter or DAC differences. If DACs didn't matter, I don't think there would be a section for them with this much activity. Also, best way is to just try for yourself. The longer I've been in the hobby, the more I've learned that a lot more things matter than what my wallet can handle.
 
Sep 5, 2021 at 11:58 PM Post #9 of 124
Those who say that all DACs sound the same doubtfully heard them all. Lol
 
Sep 6, 2021 at 12:10 AM Post #10 of 124
I did a side by side study of two DACs. This may not be fair, but the results were dramatic.

1) Apple Dongle
2) Cambridge Audio DACMagic Plus


The way I did the test was to use the same YouTube video.


I had one video playing on my IPod Touch, the exact same video playing on my MacBook Air. The Dongle was connected to a two RCA feed to the Asgard One. The Cambridge Audio DACMagic Plus was RCA out to the Asgard One. I used Sony MDR-Z1R in single ended mode (included cable).


I didn’t have a way of volume matching electronically, still it didn’t matter. Someone may say that the Dongle was the straight signal and the DACMagic Plus had embellished tone?

Not sure how or what was embellished, except the DACMagic Plus was emotional and immensely superior. It was not even funny. The real DAC had volumes of soundstage and imaging where the Dongle was a compressed over all image. The Dongle has less bass texture as well as the highs were thin and contained less detail. If this is from source, or amp line level in the DAC, don’t know?

Miles and miles apart.
 
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Sep 6, 2021 at 1:08 AM Post #12 of 124
I can only speak for myself but for me dac’s definitely matter. I hear a difference, too bad for you if you don’t.
 
Sep 6, 2021 at 2:56 AM Post #13 of 124
I can only speak for myself but for me dac’s definitely matter. I hear a difference, too bad for you if you don’t.
I would not say it is too bad since I can then buy once and be done with it. I can also buy the stuff which looks the best and satisfies me the most from the build perspective, aesthetics, inputs, etc.

Plus I have nothing to earn to lie to myself, if I hear something because of a « placebo » or (whatever name you call it), then I « hear » it. I have just the control prior to that on how I want the DAC to look, which form factor it should have, etc. I am quite happy to pay for serious craftsmanship even if I consider it overenigineering for audible purposes.
 
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Sep 6, 2021 at 3:08 AM Post #14 of 124
I did a side by side study of two DACs. This may not be fair, but the results were dramatic.

1) Apple Dongle
2) Cambridge Audio DACMagic Plus


The way I did the test was to use the same YouTube video.


I had one video playing on my IPod Touch, the exact same video playing on my MacBook Air. The Dongle was connected to a two RCA feed to the Asgard One. The Cambridge Audio DACMagic Plus was RCA out to the Asgard One. I used Sony MDR-Z1R in single ended mode (included cable).


I didn’t have a way of volume matching electronically, still it didn’t matter. Someone may say that the Dongle was the straight signal and the DACMagic Plus had embellished tone?

Not sure how or what was embellished, except the DACMagic Plus was emotional and immensely superior. It was not even funny. The real DAC had volumes of soundstage and imaging where the Dongle was a compressed over all image. The Dongle has less bass texture as well as the highs were thin and contained less detail. If this is from source, or amp line level in the DAC, don’t know?

Miles and miles apart.
The Apple dongle has very low power output, especially if it is an EU model. I guess it should translate in a less dynamic sound and lacking FR areas.
This one is pretty obvious to me to, I would no say night and day (from my own sensitivity) but noticeable.
 
Sep 6, 2021 at 3:30 AM Post #15 of 124
The Apple dongle has very low power output, especially if it is an EU model. I guess it should translate in a less dynamic sound and lacking FR areas.
This one is pretty obvious to me to, I would no say night and day (from my own sensitivity) but noticeable.
I don’t have EU one? Whatever, I’m not going to argue this one. Lol
 

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