DIY speakers vs energy rc-10?

[bik2101]

I have a friend who recently bought and made his own speakers with a DIY kit. I was wondering if it would be a cheaper way to go rather than buying commercial speakers? I have been looking into nearfield 2.0 setup and had settled on getting a pair of the energy rc-10, which I have been able to find selling for around 300-400.

And so I was wondering if it would be possible to buy a DIY kit for speakers, in the same or lower price range, that would either match or be better than the RC-10s both in terms of SQ and efficiency, because i know that the rc-10 are pretty efficient and that would allow me to use a t-amp instead of a receiver, whcih i have no space for on my desk right now.

any help would be greatly appreciated. thanks!

 

[DeusEx]

If it's your very first pair, then the Energys. I use the RC-10s in a near-field setup that works fairly well. And $300 is a real bargain - essentially half of what their normal asking price is..

 

[bik2101]

I see that you use a receiver (?) with your rc-10s. have you used a t-amp with them? i know they are pretty efficient speakers and so a t-amp would be possible to use with them but i was just wondering which tripath chip would be better, the 2020 or the 2024? if you have any experience with them any information would be great. thanks

 

[wushuliu]

Quote:

Originally Posted by bik2101 /img/forum/go_quote.gif I have a friend who recently bought and made his own speakers with a DIY kit. I was wondering if it would be a cheaper way to go rather than buying commercial speakers? I have been looking into nearfield 2.0 setup and had settled on getting a pair of the energy rc-10, which I have been able to find selling for around 300-400. And so I was wondering if it would be possible to buy a DIY kit for speakers, in the same or lower price range, that would either match or be better than the RC-10s both in terms of SQ and efficiency, because i know that the rc-10 are pretty efficient and that would allow me to use a t-amp instead of a receiver, whcih i have no space for on my desk right now. any help would be greatly appreciated. thanks!

Which kit are you referring to?

For that price range you are probably better off going w/ the RC-10. The only diy kit on that price range that I know of that would be competitive is the PE RS621, but they don't play as low (not ported). Sensitivity is the same.

 

[bik2101]

yeah i actually hadn't looked at any DIY kits just my that friend had noted there are some - although after checking what he was talking about (zaph audio kits? i think) they are way too expensive, especially since I would need to get the cabinets along with the actual parts, i realized it will not be much of a price difference. so i'm just going to end up getting the rc-10s. thanks.

 

[wushuliu]

Ah, the Zaph kits I'm sure are frickin' phenomenal. The payoff would be his MTM designs or larger MTMMM. His woofers are as good as if not better than the $170 seas excel, and you sure won't find THOSE in anything retail under $2000.

But a person either has the diy bug or they don't. Sounds like you made the right call. Enjoy!

 

[Uncle Erik]

If you pick the right design and parts, DIY always gives you more for your money.

The typical markup for commercial products is roughly four to five times the cost of the components. So a $400 speaker has about $100 of parts in it. If your budget is $400, you're much better off spending $400 on parts and "donating" your sweat equity to the project.

If four to five times sounds high, consider how expensive it is to run a business. There's labor, utilities, business tax, payroll tax, rent, marketing, shipping, and I could go on. A pair of $300 commercial speakers has probably $70-$80 of parts and materials. That is fair, however, your money goes a lot further if you cut those costs out with DIY.

Not all DIY is created equal, but you can poke around through more popular projects (the Madisound Forum has lots of great projects and ideas) and save a bundle if you roll your own.

You should also consider used speakers. They're typically 50% off or more and speakers are stable components. You don't "need" a warranty and most audiophile speakers are babied by the owners. Shipping speakers gets expensive, run Audiogon searches restricted to nearby zipcodes and check Craigslist.

 

[tim3320070]

As an Energy buff, I have had a ton of different Energy speakers including the RC-10. I recently sold them as I won a bid for some Energy e:XL-16 (6.5" woofer bookshelf) from their older lineup (for $43 shipped!) and those sound at least as good, maybe better than the RC-10 (better bass). The e:xl line was very very good.
Something to keep in mind I guess.

 

[bik2101]

Quote:

Originally Posted by tim3320070 /img/forum/go_quote.gif As an Energy buff, I have had a ton of different Energy speakers including the RC-10. I recently sold them as I won a bid for some Energy e:XL-16 (6.5" woofer bookshelf) from their older lineup (for $43 shipped!) and those sound at least as good, maybe better than the RC-10 (better bass). The e:xl line was very very good. Something to keep in mind I guess.

wow.. so these e:XL-16's are better than the rc-10's in your opinion? and you got them for that cheap?? hmm. i will definitely keep this in mind then.

 

[Paul J.]

Quote:

Originally Posted by wushuliu /img/forum/go_quote.gif Which kit are you referring to? For that price range you are probably better off going w/ the RC-10. The only diy kit on that price range that I know of that would be competitive is the PE RS621, but they don't play as low (not ported). Sensitivity is the same.

Sure, the -3db point is lower in the ported box, between -3 at 50hz from a vented box and -3db at 60hz from a sealed box, guess who wins at 40hz? In many rooms, the sealed box will probably be flat to around 40hz. The difference between a 6db and 12db per octave rolloff is huge! Not to mention that a vented box tuned to 50hz will leave the driver completely unloaded in the 40's, where there is still considerable content. That means excessive excursion and much higher distortion to the top of the woofer's passband.

I admit that I am predisposed to diy, and I sell drivers, albeit of a very different sort than PE. I also think that the benefits of diy are sometimes overstated. But, when you are looking at a <$1000 commercial product, you are looking (in most cases, there are exceptions) at <$15 drivers, 5/8" particle board, electrolytic caps and probably iron core inductors. (I invite folks to pull woofers out, take some pics of the constituent parts and prove me wrong!) Comparably priced kits generally have parts that you'd find in $2K-3Kish speakers.

I'm not saying that commercial speakers are a bad deal. And of course, there are varying grades of DIY. I spend dozens of hours on projects, vs. kits that you can build in less time than I spend making dinner. But, comparing diy and commercial in the same price range is, in most cases, comparing apples and oranges.

Paul J.

 

[wushuliu]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Paul J. /img/forum/go_quote.gif Sure, the -3db point is lower in the ported box, between -3 at 50hz from a vented box and -3db at 60hz from a sealed box, guess who wins at 40hz? In many rooms, the sealed box will probably be flat to around 40hz. The difference between a 6db and 12db per octave rolloff is huge! Not to mention that a vented box tuned to 50hz will leave the driver completely unloaded in the 40's, where there is still considerable content. That means excessive excursion and much higher distortion to the top of the woofer's passband. I admit that I am predisposed to diy, and I sell drivers, albeit of a very different sort than PE. I also think that the benefits of diy are sometimes overstated. But, when you are looking at a <$1000 commercial product, you are looking (in most cases, there are exceptions) at <$15 drivers, 5/8" particle board, electrolytic caps and probably iron core inductors. (I invite folks to pull woofers out, take some pics of the constituent parts and prove me wrong!) Comparably priced kits generally have parts that you'd find in $2K-3Kish speakers. I'm not saying that commercial speakers are a bad deal. And of course, there are varying grades of DIY. I spend dozens of hours on projects, vs. kits that you can build in less time than I spend making dinner. But, comparing diy and commercial in the same price range is, in most cases, comparing apples and oranges. Paul J.

Thanks Paul
Good Points All

 

[tim3320070]

Quote:

Originally Posted by bik2101 /img/forum/go_quote.gif wow.. so these e:XL-16's are better than the rc-10's in your opinion? and you got them for that cheap?? hmm. i will definitely keep this in mind then.

At least in the same league SQ-wise with more bass impact. I don't know how anybody could be disappointed in the e:XL line at the price point and much higher.