[klipschter]

Is it possible to make the cable upgrade yourself? what all is different between the cables? Call me ignorant, but seems like you could get some reference quality say 16 guage copper cable with good insulation and put a 1/4 mini plug on one end and then some how get the right end to go into teh hd600 jack and have your own new cables.

or is it something exotic like the carbon cables? what is the story?

thanks for all your help lately!

 

[Orpheus]

hi... well, it seems that both the Clou Red and Equinox both splice off the original HD-600 cable connectors... only the Cardas seems to manufacture their own. So, you can follow the same suit... cut off the connectors, being careful to leave enough line to splice your cable on.

the Cardas uses a Switchcraft type plug, and the Equinox uses a Neutrik plug... both are readily available at a electronics store for under $3.00 each... under $2.00 if you buy in bulk. makes you wonder why Equinox brags about their "advanced" connectors huh?

if you want a mini plug instead of the 1/4", Neutrik also makes one with gold connectors that I use myself... I forget the model number, but you can search their internet site for it. I think the prototype Equinox (or maybe it was Cardas... I forgot) cables used that connector instead.

as for the cable... I believe both Cardas and Equinox uses a star quad cable... maybe even Clou. anyway... the most popular star quad cable is made by Canare... order the Canare L-4E6S. it's readily available, so someone would probably be willing to cut you a short piece. it has a braided shield, and is very flexible... much more flexible than my Cardas cable, even though it's 50% thicker.

star quad cable will have 4 conductors... so make sure you tie the two conductors with the same color together before you splice/solder (I use WBT silver solder.) shrink tube the two spliced connectors too, so they don't short circuit.

finish off with techflex and adhesive coated shrink tubing.... and there you go.

dean

 

[klipschter]

thanks a ton! that is great news. any idea on the price of the cable? i would get like 5 feet, and then later make a longer one for when i watch movies on the couch, but not needed right now, i don't watch many outside of the Klipschs syterm i have

 

[Orpheus]

it's very cheap.... if you buy a whole roll, it's $0.30/ft. but if they cut it for you, you might have to pay up to maybe $0.50-$1.00/ft... and maybe a cutting charge.... but i think if you call around, someone will probably do it without a cutting charge. i personally make cables for my recording studio... so buying 600ft rolls is okay.... but for you... just call around. also, the WBT solder is like $30-40 a roll.... so you probably should just buy the Kester Silver Solder, which comes in very small containers for $1.00/each if you're just gonna make a couple cables.

you're gonna need a lot of different sized heat shrinks though... cause after you strip the cable, you're also gonna have to twist up the opposing wires.... just like Cardas'.... make sure you look at a picture of a Cardas before you start.... study it so you know what yours should look like.

but i have to warn you.... it won't be easy to splice the connectors on... that's where pros like Clou and Equinox will have better workmanship... so you probably have to practice a little to get a tight and short splice.

dean

 

[Orpheus]

ps.--- in fact, you probably should start at the other end of the original sennheiser cable.... cut of one section and practice stripping and splicing from that section before you attempt doing the real thing.

buy much more Canare cable than you need too... it's very cheap, and you can afford to screw up a little. professionals also use this stuff for their studios... it's what i use. make a couple cable for your components with this stuff. i think you'll like it. you can contact me by email with you want to know how to make audio cables with this. star quad was originally made for microphones due to its electromagnetic interference cancelling properties.

dean

 

[Sovkiller]

Hey Orpheus....where ca we get this canare for that price? I may need some for a headphone extension also

 

[Orpheus]

i buy from www.haveinc.com

i believe the L-4E6S (i recommended this one cause it was very flexible) is about $0.30/ft. i usually use the L-4e6AT for my studio though, cause it has a foil shield, and thus better coverage... but it's only recommended for fixed installations where you won't be bending the cable much. guess the foil can break eventually. and it's also not as flexible... but it's cheaper @ 0.22/ft. it is also slightly lower guage (i think 20 gauge when the correct wires are tied... as opposed to 21 or 22 for the 6S model.) it will give you better performance, but at the cost of durability and flexibility.

however.... haveinc.com charges a cutting charge of $8 if you don't buy the whole roll (i usually buy the whole darn thing cause i use so much in the studio.) so.... keep that in mind. there are places that will sell for twice the price, but no cutting charge... so if you don't need that much, you might consider paying higher somewhere else.

they also carry the Switchcraft and Neutrik plugs at VERY good prices. i doubt anyone else would be much cheaper. they even have the Neutrik Pro-Fi @ $10/pair.... take a look at the connectors on the Nordost Valhalla $6000 cables.... SAME THING! heh he..... you gotta wonder, man....

dean

 

[Orpheus]

you know... the idea i had originally was to mostly copy Cardas, Clou, and Equinox. but theoretically, their designs are not really the best you can do. you see, star quad was originally made for microphone cables (balanced connections) because the tightly wound opposing pair wires resulted in 1/4 the loop area compared to normal twisted pair cables... thus reducing electromagnetic inteference. however, for this property to work, the opposing pair have to be tied... but in the popular headphone cable designs, each of the four codunctors are really used as separate wires, because we need a send and a return for both left and right channels. thus... in a headphone cable, it's more like two twisted pairs in the same jacket.

now... a better design would be to simply run a separate cable to each channel (left/right)... and tying them only when finally soldering to the plug that goes into the amp. that way, we have a lower gauge to carry the higher current of amplified headphone power (as opposed to line level)... and since the wires are in completely different cables, the nosie cancellation of the star quad can be utilized and we also do not have induction problems between the left and right channel. would you combine your interocnnects into 1 cable rather than left/right? no.... because of the same reasons. so, why would you want to combine left/right in a headphone cable?--the only reason is for aesthetics/comfortability. but i think two cables could look cool if you do good finishing touches.

if you decide to take this route... tie the color matched pairs... one color for send, and the other for return. the two returns will be tied together at the plug, meaning the left and right channel will share the same return eventually (which is why the headroom blockhead runs separate left and right cables.) and the shield will only be connected at the plug.

i still recommend the Canare L-4E6S for this application.

not only will you have maximum performance this way, it's also a hell lot easier to make than a conventional headphone cable.

dean

 

[Sovkiller]

So Orpheus I'm a little confused now, the first way you suggested is to make a pair of two conductors, one pair tied together for the left, one for the right and use the braided shield as a ground or return? or to use each pair of conductors for each channel (L and R) and leave the braided shield alone? please can you xplain me more of these designs????

 

[Orpheus]

yeah, sorry... i was a little unclear...

i first suggested pretty much copying the Cardas design... there are 4 conductors in a star quad cable. so, Cardas took one wire for the send, and one wire for the return for each channel. so, each channel takes 2 wires, using all 4. then, when you solder to the plug, the returns would be tied together, so that both left and right share the same return eventually. the braided shield should also be tied to these returns at this point.

now, to do it this way makes for a very clean looking cable... the Cardas, Equinox, and Clou all look great. but the problem is, they are compromising the main benefit of using star quad: electromagnetic cancellation due to 1/4 the loop area. also, putting the left and right signals in the same cable introduces induction problems between the two channels.... theoretically anyway. thirdly... if they are only using one wire for send, and one for return... the gauge of the wire used is actually thinner than a line level cable. now, why would you try using a thinner cable for an amplified headphone signal than a low level line level cable? makes no sense right? you see, though Canare specs 21-22 gauge for their star quad, this guage is when you tie the pair os color coded wires together... but if you use each one singly, it's only half as thick.... so you're actaully making a 25 guage cable for your headphones.

for these 3 reasons, i don't like "my" original design... it would be much better to use one complete star quad cable for each side... just like those balanced cables that Clou makes for the Headroom Blockheads.

dean

 

[Sovkiller]

Thanks a lot, but now I have the last question and for me the more difficult one....where to get the canare cable? the website you suggested, does not offer prices for the cable alone, and I just need about 15' so I don't know how much they will charge me for that, how can I order that from them or from anybody....?

 

[Orpheus]

i always called them to order. they will charge you $0.30-$0.40/ft + $8.00 cutting charge + shipping. order the plugs from them too... they are the cheapest of anyone i have ever seen. and i suggest you to order more than 15ft.... if you're gonna do the better design, you're gonna need at least 20ft for a 10' cable. you should buy double.... just in case you screw up. the cable's really cheap anyway. besides, if you have left-over, they will make great interconnects... especially balanced interconnects, since that's what they were made for in the first place.

when making interconnects with star quad, make sure you tie the same colored wires together. the shield should only be conencted at the output side.

call around to see if you can avoid the cutting charge. Canare L-4E6S is a VERY popular cable in the professional world... almost every cable retailer should have it. major studios only use 3 brands... Mogami, Canare, and Belden. i've tried the Mogami star quad before... but it's twice as expensive and does not have good shielding. i think Canare is the best.... and the cheapest.

dean

 

[tanfenton]

Sovkiller,

Canare L-4E6S can be ordered from Markertek at http://www.markertek.com/MTStore/pro...em=L%2D4E6S+BK . I just placed an order for a dozen feet myself.

Keep us updated on this experiment!

NGF

 

[Glassman]

well, there couldn't be any magic in the whole cable stuff.. what kind of cable we need? we probably do not need any shielding, becouse our phone's impedance is around 300Ohm, there is relatively lot of current flowing through the drivers, so there is no way for EMI to get into the cable and being heard, right? it's clear that in the microphone applications there has to be very good shielding and in line level IC applications as well, but not for speaker cables nor headphone cables.. what we need is some serious conductor diameter, low resistance and low capacity, right? I think the stock senn's cable has 2x 0.08 mm^2 - it's fairly low.. the capacity is certainly more than 160pF/mt (50pF/ft).. I found some italian Tasker cable with 2x 0.35 mm^2, 61pF/mt (18.5pF/ft) and is very flexible.. overall diameter 6.3mm.. I'm thinking about stripping the outer jacket and shielding, then twisting those two cables - one pair for left and one for right channel.. this all covered in TechFlex..

what do you think about it? the canare starquad has worse parameters than this one.. maybe it's better for microphones but not that good for headphones..

 

[Anders]

I have also thought about making such an upgrade cable with Canare or Belden, not so much for Sennheiser but for headphones that are hardwired (e.g. DT931).

Has anyone compared a homemade with Cardas or another of the commercial upgrade cables?