[Ic3Floe]

So me and my friend who are both self-titled audiphiles have gotten really interested lately in building an amp for ourselves. We have been talking about it a lot lately and we have started to get really psyched about it. Initially we would only build one.

So, being that neither of us has ever made an amp before, we need some serious help before we can even begin to seriously comprehend building an amp. I know the basic workings of an amp. Basic certainly being the key work in that sentence. I understand the point of buffers, and Op-Amps, as well as the importance of having the ability to roll-out both of those components. From there, I start to get somewhat lost.

Secondly, we aren't really sure what type of amp to build on our first try. I'm sure that most people will reccomend a cmoy or something similar, but I'm not so sure. I think that both of us, being poor (literally) students, would rather spend the money building a higher quality amp (PPA?) and then having the longterm longevity of a better amp.

We have lots of time to read, and have already done a fair amount of reading. As well, we have the resources to troubleshoot any actual electrical issues that might occur as well as understand and construct the circuitry.

Basically, what do all you DIYers out there think would be an appropriately challenging amp project for us to undertake, and what do we really need to know before we begin. Also, how much the total project would likely cost (ballpark) as well as where you reccomend getting the electrics.

Thanks.

 

[Cmoyamphelp]

what are u asking i don't understand if it's weather or not you can make a cmoy well yes you can i belive anyone can.

 

[Ic3Floe]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cmoyamphelp what are u asking i don't understand if it's weather or not you can make a cmoy well yes you can i belive anyone can.

Ahh! you were too fast for me to fix my error!

Yea, I'm really sorry for the awful first post, it has since been edited. What happened was I hit the enter key in the middle of my first sentence by accident and it submitted the post. Not exactly what I meant to do. The post is much more complete now. Thanks.

 

[jerb]

i would say a Cmoy is a good starting point because you dont have to know how it works to troubleshoot it. usually after people do a cmoy they move onto mints ($70 USD) or Pimita's ($100-250 USD) both are fairly easy to build assuming you can sodler well because they can be made on labeled PCB's so its as simple as puting the parts in the corresponding holes. however these amps are much more labor intensive (and expensive) so if you mess up your out more money and because of how comples they are they require some smarts to troubleshot effectively.

im not sure if this is exactly what your looking for but i hope it gives you a starting point

*EDIT- gsferrari i must have beat you by a split sec **

 

[gsferrari]

I suggest a PCB based design. These have better documentation and are easier to work with.

MINT - one each?

PPA ?

Pete Millet Hybrid ?

White Noise Amp ?

 

[Ic3Floe]

What would a ballpark budget be for a PPA?

I'm not overly worried about screwing up. Like I said, we are both students who have a physics teacher who is more than willing to give us a hand if we try to do some extra "projects" outside of class (and yes, an amp does count

).

I'm not sure about my friend, but I'm a very competent solderer, so I'm not worried much about the physicals aspect of assembly. As well, neither of us are shy about taking on a challenge and diving straight into the deep end.

gsferarri, what are the main pros/cons of the amp builds that you listed? Any that you reccomend more than the others? Right now I think im leading towards a PPA just because there is lots of documentation on it.

 

[gsferrari]

You can do a basic PPA for $250.00 and a decent one for $350.00

I recommend the PPA over everything else. I think Nisbeth has a few boards on sale...darn good amp which can end your amp requirements as far as HeadFi is concerned...

 

[llmobll]

Ok well the answer to your question require a bit more info but i'll do my best...


1. If you want just a simple project to introduce you to concepts of headamps in general definitetly CMOY. It's not about how complex a build you can do but just understanding the fundamentals, building this amp is cheap, worth your while and very fun. It give great results. I hate to sound cliche but start here.


2. Despite the fact that you feel competent about soldering, the main problem you will face is the design of the amp itself. There are soo many choices you can make , component wise that results will very with the setup you are running. Building a CMOY will enable you to understand the reasons' for certain choices in higher end amps. Such as bias points, buffers, power supply voltages, gain levels, opamp sound characteristics, and the like.


3. I went from several CMOY's to a PPA and was more than capable of building the PPA. however is was my CMOY fundamentals that helped me choose parts. If you don't have the budget to build a PPA(sounds like you do though) build a Pimeta, it's basically a mini PPA. Then when you are ready you can move to higher end amps such as the Dynahi, but even I haven't done that yet.

 

[gsferrari]

I would vote the CMOY as one of the hardest amps after the Dynahi. Its not hard to assemble but troubleshooting one when you are not using a PCB is something else

LOL

Good learning experience but if you really dont care then go with a PCB based amp like the PPA.

 

[Ic3Floe]

Thanks a ton for the replies.

See, right now I'm not sure really what my budget is. Best case scenario is that one of us would pay full for the components to one amp. Then both of us would build it and then after completion it would go to the person who payed for the components.

Building a pimete also sounds like a good alternative to a ppa when on a lower budget. Generally, how does the sound of a pimeta compare to a ppa?

Also, if a basic ppa is $250, what does that entail? And if a decent one is $350, does the 'decent' one just have extra switches, buffers, better opamps etc?

 

[eastside504]

I agree with llmobll, build a cmoy. That way you can get an idea of the parts of an amp. A PPA is really easy in term of just popluating the boards with a soldering iron. The cmoy is extremely cheap as far as parts goes and if you mess up trouble shooting is not hard. Once you understand all the parts that goes into an amp then it becomes really fun and you can then decides what to put into your PPA.

 

[llmobll]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ic3Floe Thanks a ton for the replies. See, right now I'm not sure really what my budget is. Best case scenario is that one of us would pay full for the components to one amp. Then both of us would build it and then after completion it would go to the person who payed for the components. Building a pimete also sounds like a good alternative to a ppa when on a lower budget. Generally, how does the sound of a pimeta compare to a ppa? Also, if a basic ppa is $250, what does that entail? And if a decent one is $350, does the 'decent' one just have extra switches, buffers, better opamps etc?

At the present moment it depends on what Version of the PPA you are looking at. (At the moment soo much is taking place, newer versions and the like, it is exciting!!!)

A good pimeta includes a crossfeed, bassboost, and will offer great performance to drive whatever you want.

A Basic PPA will have to cut out a few key parts, ones that I personally feel make the PPA such a good circuit. I can't stress enough how much Diamond buffers change the sound. There are SOOO many choices right now,

Version 1.1 or so.

You need an aftermarket diamond buffer. Glassman is just about to release his newer version!!! About $60 but i don't remember the exact abount.

Version 2.0 of the PPA circuit is just about done and it is designed to have a diamond buffer(or discrete buffer) instead of normal chip buffers.

A diamond buffer (discrete buffer) offers much better sound quality, even a basic diamond buffer make the PPA sound so much better, the soundstage, the detail all change.

A basic PPA won't be able to include these things. Even a TEPS power supply will be extra, can't afford that.

Opamp wise - lucky the cheaper opamps are kinda preferred in the PPA, namely the AD8610. it used to be the OPA627's/637's but people prefer different sound so most people like the AD610 right now.

Again i can't stress enough, if none of this making sense it's because you dont' have the fundamental idea of what each part does. Hence CMOY!!!! i would sooo build this, most parts can be had from radio shack, and it's easy to put together, easy enough so that each of you can get one. From there you can each decide how much more you want to spend on headamps.

 

[Ic3Floe]

Quote:

Originally Posted by llmobll Again i can't stress enough, if none of this making sense it's because you dont' have the fundamental idea of what each part does. Hence CMOY!!!! i would sooo build this, most parts can be had from radio shack, and it's easy to put together, easy enough so that each of you can get one. From there you can each decide how much more you want to spend on headamps.

I do understand most of it, and just from reading (tangent) I have a rudimentary understanding of most of the parts. I think you may have done your job of convincing me to start with a cmoy though. Its just easy to get ahead of myself. I may just start there.

Were you exaggerating when you said that I could get all the parts for a cmoy from rat-shack? Just reading on tangent's site, it seems like there are quite a few parts that might be a little bit harder to find than that.

 

[Syzygies]

If you have a knack for soldering, the least expensive amp worth building is a MINT, $60 to $80. You can make two at once, and each have one. A CMoy is a "starter marriage"; skip the divorce, if money is tight.

Some people solder like surgeons, some people solder like Jackson Pollock. Go buy a $3 protoboard and a $7 bag of resistors at RadioShack, together with narrow solder and a narrow iron tip, and use up the bag like they were golf balls at a driving range. Scan your work at the highest dpi your scanner will support, stare at your work, and solder some more.

There are three surface mount chips on the MINT, 8 pins each, spaced 0.05" apart, that are the crux move in making a MINT. At a minimum, you're aiming for something like this:

If you want prettier, there are countless threads on surface mount techique, but the above is good enough, no special technique.

 

[Ic3Floe]

Syzygies, its just when I start getting up into mint price range, 80usd, I can't help but wonder if it wouldn't just be better to make the larger investment earlier, seeing as how a mint would be like 1/3 of a PPA. Thats the paradox eh, whether it makes sense to buy/make anything that isnt of a quality that you are going to stick with.