Dissapointment (tsk tsk)
Sep 17, 2009 at 12:47 AM Thread Starter Post #1 of 32

zackw419

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Well I've had the Denon c710's for about a week now and I think its safe to say im pretty dissapointed in them. They have great bass detail which is a plus but I don't find anything else good about the sound these IEM's produce. I don't know whether its the treble or what (not very good at explaining sound) but the vocals are not detailed what so ever and seem to be drowned out by the bass. When I listen to them the first word that comes to mind is muffled.

Now look, im not a very picky guy, I don't obsess over perfect sound or anything but these really dissapointed me. At higher volumes they just sound really sharp and irritating. A very unnatural sound, if you will.

So im willing to bump up the pay for some good IEM's if you kind people would be willing to help me. I know this might not be alot but something around $200 or less would be perfect. If 50 extra dolars will make a significant difference I will consider going there. but 100-200 would be ideal.

The things im looking for:

Good bass, by good i mean detailed. I love bass and I listen to rap mostly but the c710's had too much. It was detailed but it drowned out everything else

comfort, speaks for itself

Well rounded, good soundstage. not lacking in one area more than the other (probably something impossible of me to say
k701smile.gif
)

I just want some good sounding headphones. Like I said I listen to rap mostly and I just want something realistic that's going to produce a well rounded sound that I can enjoy listening to. Something that can handle higher (not high) volumes with out sounding like crap.

Like I said the denon c710's really disapointed me. Any guidance is very much appreciated. Like I said, im not looking for something in particular just a well rounded, detailed sound.

Thanks for reading this far!

- Im thinking customs might be my best bet. Only thing is they are a bit pricey. Any low enders that may stand a chance? I get this weird feeling universals just wont sound as good, but then again im not very experienced in this field. thoughts?
 
Sep 17, 2009 at 1:42 AM Post #2 of 32

mvw2

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A lot of headphones get hype, and sometimes it's not well deserved. This is nothing specifically aimed at the C710, but you always have to be weary or at least hesitant to simply jump on the new product band wagon.

I have not listened to the C710, so I can't comment on the sound. I have used the C700 (same as current C751), and it is a bass heavy design, quite overwhelming. As well, the C700 was pretty sensitive to the tip used. I would suggest you try and step away from the mini single flange that Denon uses and buy a triple flange or foam tip. In some cases, the presentation changes rather significantly.

EQing is always helpful if you've got it. Some folks are unwilling to EQ or don't have a good method to EQ. These folks need to buy a headphone with the correct frequency response for them right out of the box. Folks will EQing power can get away using headphones with response curves that are initially less desirable. You can EQ the response to your liking and get a significantly better experience, sometimes letting a very affordable headphone sound really good.

On a budget, I will always suggest the Phonak Audio PFE. It's $120 and very well worth the price. The choice of using the black or gray filter (some folks even no filter) lets you adjust the frequency response to your liking without the need of an EQ. The sound quality is excellent as is the comfort (an over ear design).

If you like the adjustability aspect, a leap further would be Sleek Audio's SA6 at a little north of $200 new (maybe within your budget used). This is also a very good sounding IEM but and filter adjustments for both treble and bass, so you get a lot of control over the end response with no need for EQing. It's an approach you can take when you are hesitant about liking a product straight from the box or mainly don't really know the specific response you really do like.
 
Sep 17, 2009 at 1:57 AM Post #3 of 32

zackw419

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Quote:

Originally Posted by mvw2 /img/forum/go_quote.gif
A lot of headphones get hype, and sometimes it's not well deserved. This is nothing specifically aimed at the C710, but you always have to be weary or at least hesitant to simply jump on the new product band wagon.

I have not listened to the C710, so I can't comment on the sound. I have used the C700 (same as current C751), and it is a bass heavy design, quite overwhelming. As well, the C700 was pretty sensitive to the tip used. I would suggest you try and step away from the mini single flange that Denon uses and buy a triple flange or foam tip. In some cases, the presentation changes rather significantly.

EQing is always helpful if you've got it. Some folks are unwilling to EQ or don't have a good method to EQ. These folks need to buy a headphone with the correct frequency response for them right out of the box. Folks will EQing power can get away using headphones with response curves that are initially less desirable. You can EQ the response to your liking and get a significantly better experience, sometimes letting a very affordable headphone sound really good.

On a budget, I will always suggest the Phonak Audio PFE. It's $120 and very well worth the price. The choice of using the black or gray filter (some folks even no filter) lets you adjust the frequency response to your liking without the need of an EQ. The sound quality is excellent as is the comfort (an over ear design).

If you like the adjustability aspect, a leap further would be Sleek Audio's SA6 at a little north of $200 new (maybe within your budget used). This is also a very good sounding IEM but and filter adjustments for both treble and bass, so you get a lot of control over the end response with no need for EQing. It's an approach you can take when you are hesitant about liking a product straight from the box or mainly don't really know the specific response you really do like.



very helpful post. I appreciate it. I'm going to do a little research on those. You seem like a creditable person, what do you think the of the RE0? From this guy's review it looks like a great IEM.

Edit: sorry heres the link: http://www.head-fi.org/forums/f103/r...-v-2-a-394365/
 
Sep 17, 2009 at 1:58 AM Post #4 of 32

earthpeople

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Klipsch X10 seems like a pretty safe bet.
Nice bass definition and very good comfort for universals. I think that vocals are defined nicely as well without becoming unnatural and/or sharp.
Soundstage is decent for an IEM and while they are somewhat dark, I certainly don't consider them unbalanced at all.

I greatly prefer them over the SA6s I previously had, but each set of ears are different.

I also listen to a lot of rap, and I really feel that the X10s are great for the genre.

I've also been considering customs but I've been hesitant. I don't have the money to leap for the JH13s but I don't want to go with one of the cheaper customs and be disappointed on top of having essentially no resale value.
 
Sep 17, 2009 at 2:59 AM Post #6 of 32

zackw419

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Quote:

Originally Posted by charlie0904 /img/forum/go_quote.gif
I feel that UE triple 10 pro actually makes me enjoy rap more, maybe because they are quite fast and detailed also.

low end customs maybe you can try JH5pro.



the triple 10 pro looks nice but runs in the $300's which is a little over my budget.
 
Sep 17, 2009 at 3:22 AM Post #7 of 32

mvw2

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Yep, everyone's ears are different.

The RE0 is not a bass heavy IEM. If you want strong bass, it won't be the one you'll be looking at.

I point out the SA6 mainly because it is adjustable. It isn't the best out there as a number of reviews indicate, but it does function well, also as the reviews indicate. You should be able to find a setting you like. Similar for the PFE, although to a lesser extent. However, the PFE is insanely cheap for what it is, so it's a great buy automatically.

Once you start spending some serious money though, it gets very hard to become dead set on a product that you absolutely know you will love. It stops becoming a matter of what's good or bad and becomes a matter of personal preference. It becomes the small details that make one option a better fit then another. Because it is so heavily a matter of personal preference, it becomes incredibly difficult for any one individual to 100% correctly suggest an option for you. In the end, you read tons and tons of reviews and user comments and you end up buying something. You use that something and either like it a whole lot or kind of go eh... If you like it, you keep it. If it wasn't quite what you were dreaming of, you sell it. Then you buy the next product that sounds really like what you prefer. You repeat this process for a while until you finally run across that product that really, really fits you perfectly. The problem is you may have gone through 6 different $200-$300 IEMs to find that one. It's also not a simple matter of price. You may spend $1000+ on a great set of customs, they may operate wonderfully, and you may still find them not sounding quite like you wanted. It's just that once you get to a good level of quality and very well performing products, it just becomes a matter of preference. Trial and error. That's what you get to do.
 
Sep 17, 2009 at 3:31 AM Post #8 of 32

tstarn06

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I had the 710s, and thought they were decent, but not great. I sold them. For around the same price (a little less), I sort of like the Klipsch S4s more (but like the 710s, the S4s need more than 100 hours of burn-in to get rid of problem sounds), and also found a weird phone, the Cresyn E750C, which I really like for the price, under $100.

Anyway, those are a coupe of $100 suggestions. IF TF10s are out of budget, customs are even more.

I also was a major fan of the PFEs (I started that appreciation thread) and still like them, esp at their price cut. But the durability issue is something to consider, though they will replace any cracked driver housings or cables with the new model, when it ever comes out. Two-year warranty.
 
Sep 17, 2009 at 3:35 AM Post #9 of 32

Pianist

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I highly recommend giving Hifiman RE0 a try. For $99, they are an absolute steal and they sound better than the Triple.fi IMO - more balanced and natural. I think they are the best IEM you can get for under $200. They have a very detailed and sufficiently punchy and deep bass, fully extended and superbly detailed treble that is neither overstated nor rolled off, and smooth, accurate mids that are neither recessed nor forward. They are extremely neutral, but still fun sounding at the same time. Soundstage on them is very airy and quite wide - very good for an IEM I think.
 
Sep 17, 2009 at 3:47 AM Post #10 of 32

zackw419

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Quote:

Originally Posted by Pianist /img/forum/go_quote.gif
I highly recommend giving Hifiman RE0 a try. For $99, they are an absolute steal and they sound better than the Triple.fi IMO - more balanced and natural. I think they are the best IEM you can get for under $200. They have a very detailed and sufficiently punchy and deep bass, fully extended and superbly detailed treble that is neither overstated nor rolled off, and smooth, accurate mids that are neither recessed nor forward. They are extremely neutral, but still fun sounding at the same time. Soundstage on them is very airy and quite wide - very good for an IEM I think.


what makes them 'hifiman'?

RE0's seem to have everything going for them only thing that has me doubting is i heard the microphonics is reaaly bad...is this true if im going to be walking around alot? One thing I give denon is having almost no microphonics
 
Sep 17, 2009 at 3:49 AM Post #11 of 32

zackw419

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Quote:

Originally Posted by mvw2 /img/forum/go_quote.gif
Yep, everyone's ears are different.

The RE0 is not a bass heavy IEM. If you want strong bass, it won't be the one you'll be looking at.

I point out the SA6 mainly because it is adjustable. It isn't the best out there as a number of reviews indicate, but it does function well, also as the reviews indicate. You should be able to find a setting you like. Similar for the PFE, although to a lesser extent. However, the PFE is insanely cheap for what it is, so it's a great buy automatically.

Once you start spending some serious money though, it gets very hard to become dead set on a product that you absolutely know you will love. It stops becoming a matter of what's good or bad and becomes a matter of personal preference. It becomes the small details that make one option a better fit then another. Because it is so heavily a matter of personal preference, it becomes incredibly difficult for any one individual to 100% correctly suggest an option for you. In the end, you read tons and tons of reviews and user comments and you end up buying something. You use that something and either like it a whole lot or kind of go eh... If you like it, you keep it. If it wasn't quite what you were dreaming of, you sell it. Then you buy the next product that sounds really like what you prefer. You repeat this process for a while until you finally run across that product that really, really fits you perfectly. The problem is you may have gone through 6 different $200-$300 IEMs to find that one. It's also not a simple matter of price. You may spend $1000+ on a great set of customs, they may operate wonderfully, and you may still find them not sounding quite like you wanted. It's just that once you get to a good level of quality and very well performing products, it just becomes a matter of preference. Trial and error. That's what you get to do.



helpful post. I'm leaning towards the PFE's theres only one type of PFE right? just so i dont get mixed up.
 
Sep 17, 2009 at 3:52 AM Post #12 of 32

average_joe

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Quote:

Originally Posted by tstarn06 /img/forum/go_quote.gif
I had the 710s, and thought they were decent, but not great. I sold them.


You sold yours? Didn't know that.

@zackw419: What tips are you using, and how deep are you inserting them? To me sounds like you either have them inserted too deeply or are using the included Comply tips, which will muddy the mids/treble and accentuate the bass.

And I would give em 200 hours, which is about what mine needed for the treble to smooth out. But these are colored with a lot of bass and treble.

I would try more tips and insertion depths. If you still don't like em, the RE0 has had great reviews, and the Cresyn C750E is very good also (for $80 from newegg.com).
 
Sep 17, 2009 at 3:55 AM Post #13 of 32

zackw419

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Quote:

Originally Posted by average_joe /img/forum/go_quote.gif
You sold yours? Didn't know that.

@zackw419: What tips are you using, and how deep are you inserting them? To me sounds like you either have them inserted too deeply or are using the included Comply tips, which will muddy the mids/treble and accentuate the bass.

And I would give em 200 hours, which is about what mine needed for the treble to smooth out. But these are colored with a lot of bass and treble.

I would try more tips and insertion depths. If you still don't like em, the RE0 has had great reviews, and the Cresyn C750E is very good also (for $80 from newegg.com).



Ive tried all the tips at many different angles, I even have the sony hybrid ones. They sound alot better over the ear but I still don't like them that much.

Honestly, I know burn in can help headphones sound better but I'm pretty sure I got the jist of the sound sig these have. thanks
 
Sep 17, 2009 at 3:57 AM Post #14 of 32

tstarn06

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Yes, sold the 710s when I decided the UM3X, Cresyns and S4s were enough, and I wanted to pay for my UM56s for the Westones. Which reminds me, they should be here by now. Gotta check tomorrow.

Of course, then I went and pre-ordered the Grados. Doh!
 
Sep 17, 2009 at 4:03 AM Post #15 of 32

average_joe

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Quote:

Originally Posted by zackw419 /img/forum/go_quote.gif
Ive tried all the tips at many different angles, I even have the sony hybrid ones. They sound alot better over the ear but I still don't like them that much.

Honestly, I know burn in can help headphones sound better but I'm pretty sure I got the jist of the sound sig these have. thanks



Yea, not every headphone will satisfy everyone, and I think the C710 is best suited for electronic/trance, although I do like it a lot now with pop, but it can sound unnatural.

And there was a point where over the ear vs. cable down made a huge difference, but now there is very little difference in sound. Mine did change quite a bit for the better over time.

@tstarn - thanks, I understand kinda. Unfortunately I can't seem to sell any of my IEMs, even if I don't use them!
 

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