[droopdog7]

Not sure how many people out there still using iTunes to stream Apple Music but I recently stumbled upon a solution to this weird quirk I encountered when playing music on my PC (Windows 10) in iTunes. It's sorta hard to explain, and there may be multiple triggers, but here goes.

The general idea is that I would often have to restart iTunes to get sound. Sometimes it happened when I tried switching sound output source (i.e., I needed to restart iTunes). Sometimes it seemed that I needed to start iTunes or my amp in a particular order, though I never quite figured it out. The most obvious thing though was this; if I clicked play in iTunes before I started my amp, I was doomed. First, the song wouldn't actually play. If I turned on my amp, it wouldn't play. Had to always restart iTunes in that case. Alternatively, if I turned on my amp and then hit play, I was mostly good.

So, messing around with the settings today and it seems I located a fix. If I change from Windows Audio Session to Direct sound, it seems I no longer have to concern myself with which order I start my amp or iTunes or whatever. If I start a song in iTunes before turning on my amp, the song actually plays (albeit I can't hear it). If I turn on my amp next I get sound. Crazy, I know.

So two questions; what the heck is going on? Second, am I suffering from "worse quality" in Direct Sound (or vise versa)? I don't have proper tools to do a real A/B comp, and the fact that I have to restart itunes anytime switch these two options makes it even harder to compare. The logical person in me doesn't really hear a difference. The Type A person in me just wants to know.

Bonus question; where am I supposed to set the bit rate and sample audio? I just put them both at the highest setting.

 

[Bytor123]

I'd give it up as a bad job. I have - iTunes on a PC is a disaster.

 

[Twenty-One Twelve]

This is audio over HDMI, to the amp, or regular analog line level outs from PC to amp? I can see this happening when using HDMI but cannot see that happening using analog outs from PC to amp. FWIW, I prefer Nvidia's HDMI audio driver over Intel's HDMI audio driver.

As to why that happens (assuming HDMI audio), probably that WAS (the Windows Audio System since Vista) needs more attention than ye olde DS (from XP) to get it right and that attention costs lines of code and lines of code cost time and time costs money (tm). Another way to say that is WAS API is more down-to-the-metal than the DirectSound API. I prefer WASAPI to DirectSound by a country mile, but this is from this programmer's perspective.

For you, use whatever works better. Sound-wise it should be the same for players like itunes. DS since Vista is a wrapper around WASAPI, so controlling play using DS eventually makes it down to the regular (and only) WAS. Think of this as an interpreter: talk in Greek (DS) on one end and out pops Latin (WAS) on the other end (back the other way, too), only the Greek talker doesn't know this is happening.

As for your bonus Q, you need to be more specific. If you mean the audio adapter properties, going to the highest is ... stoopid, in general. You won't hear it better (nor can anyone else). Only downsides to doing that -- if by highest you mean anything above 48kHz. Since CD audio is 44100 Hz, use that. These audio adapter properites only apply to shared mode playback. Just about everything uses shared mode, at least by default. Some super-duper programs (one such is Jukebox 2112, but I heard of perhaps another) can change this shared-mode sample rate and bit size (i.e., the play format) on-the-fly, but... (this is already way too long). And there's always exclusive mode, but that's an all-or-nothing mode: nothing else can make a sound in that mode, only the program.exe using it at the time can make a sound.

16 bit sample size is also fine. That's far more dynamic range that you can hear -- unless maybe you live in a nearly silent anechoic chamber. Since you don't, start with a typical home noise level of 35 dB SPL (whatever scale you want) at your listening position. So you have to turn up the volume so that loudspeakers put out at least that much SPL to hear the lowest bit (and you won't hear it, but anyway), add to that 90dB+ and you are at 125dB+ SPL from just 16-bit CD audio. In other words, 16 bits is all you ever need when listening. Anything more is stoopid. You don't have the amp power, the loudspeaker level, or deaf neighbors to do that even if you wanted. As for Pete Townsend, Neil Young, and all the other deaf rockers, too late for them.

You could always try this: https://40th.com/jb/

 

[droopdog7]

This is audio over HDMI, to the amp, or regular analog line level outs from PC to amp? I can see this happening when using HDMI but cannot see that happening using analog outs from PC to amp. FWIW, I prefer Nvidia's HDMI audio driver over Intel's HDMI audio driver.

As to why that happens (assuming HDMI audio), probably that WAS (the Windows Audio System since Vista) needs more attention than ye olde DS (from XP) to get it right and that attention costs lines of code and lines of code cost time and time costs money (tm). Another way to say that is WAS API is more down-to-the-metal than the DirectSound API. I prefer WASAPI to DirectSound by a country mile, but this is from this programmer's perspective.

For you, use whatever works better. Sound-wise it should be the same for players like itunes. DS since Vista is a wrapper around WASAPI, so controlling play using DS eventually makes it down to the regular (and only) WAS. Think of this as an interpreter: talk in Greek (DS) on one end and out pops Latin (WAS) on the other end (back the other way, too), only the Greek talker doesn't know this is happening.

As for your bonus Q, you need to be more specific. If you mean the audio adapter properties, going to the highest is ... stoopid, in general. You won't hear it better (nor can anyone else). Only downsides to doing that -- if by highest you mean anything above 48kHz. Since CD audio is 44100 Hz, use that. These audio adapter properites only apply to shared mode playback. Just about everything uses shared mode, at least by default. Some super-duper programs (one such is Jukebox 2112, but I heard of perhaps another) can change this shared-mode sample rate and bit size (i.e., the play format) on-the-fly, but... (this is already way too long). And there's always exclusive mode, but that's an all-or-nothing mode: nothing else can make a sound in that mode, only the program.exe using it at the time can make a sound.

16 bit sample size is also fine. That's far more dynamic range that you can hear -- unless maybe you live in a nearly silent anechoic chamber. Since you don't, start with a typical home noise level of 35 dB SPL (whatever scale you want) at your listening position. So you have to turn up the volume so that loudspeakers put out at least that much SPL to hear the lowest bit (and you won't hear it, but anyway), add to that 90dB+ and you are at 125dB+ SPL from just 16-bit CD audio. In other words, 16 bits is all you ever need when listening. Anything more is stoopid. You don't have the amp power, the loudspeaker level, or deaf neighbors to do that even if you wanted. As for Pete Townsend, Neil Young, and all the other deaf rockers, too late for them.

You could always try this: https://40th.com/jb/

Thanks for such an in depth response. Conceptually, your explanation regarding the initial problem makes total sense. FYI, I am connected via usb is that matters. I’ll likely stay on direct audio to avoid the headaches that I used to experience.

 

[Twenty-One Twelve]

Thanks for such an in depth response. Conceptually, your explanation regarding the initial problem makes total sense. FYI, I am connected via usb is that matters. I’ll likely stay on direct audio to avoid the headaches that I used to experience.

When you wrote "my amp" I assumed an AVR.

What amp takes input from a PC's USB? Unless you mean a DAC-slash-amp-on-board, say for headphones, then that's only typical so maxnix for that.

DirectSound is fine for iTunes. Like any digital destination (HDMI or S/PDIF), a USB (also digital) destination I can see having the same potential problem when the device is not ready.

 

[droopdog7]

When you wrote "my amp" I assumed an AVR.

What amp takes input from a PC's USB? Unless you mean a DAC-slash-amp-on-board, say for headphones, then that's only typical so maxnix for that.

DirectSound is fine for iTunes. Like any digital destination (HDMI or S/PDIF), a USB (also digital) destination I can see having the same potential problem when the device is not ready.

Thanks. Yeah, I’m not so precise with terminology I guess. I have an micro idsd black label dac/amp combo thing.