[theHof]

My main issue is while I work, I have my D2000's hooked up to a 200W Power Amp which is hooked up to a preamp. Their both Kenwood, not super great or anything. Anyways, with some mid/low notes I get a little of that "crumpley" sound like blown speaker, but it's not consistent at all and shows up just randomely, sometimes it can be from bass hits, but I still have some clean hits, or in a vocal section of a song I'll hear a little crumple. Is it just my low quality power source? Note my PC is hooked up to the pre via 3.5mm to RCA. I listen through iTunes with Apple Lossless rips of my CDs. This is driving me absolutely nuts and really don't want to believe my 3 month old headphones are blown.

 

[theHof]

I've got a sound clip example here, the first 25 seconds of this song is rife with crumplage.

Timshel - Mumford & Sons

 

[joelpearce]

Another possibility is that you are hearing the sound clipping in a recording that's too loud. I know I get crazy clipping on some tracks. If you have another high quality pair of headphones, listen to the same tracks and see if you hear the same thing.

I'm not hearing any kind of obvious stuff on that track, at least not with my Beyers. You probably do have some sort of issue somewhere in your setup.

 

[theHof]

I unfortunately don't have another pair right now, but I'll have my friend bring his Grado's over sometime soon. Another sort of related question would be, I'm feeling these Denon's are maybe not ideal for this type of music in general (mumford & sons and similiar artists), what kind of headphones would be better for these types of songs.

As for the crumple, I'm hoping when I get my TT and have the amps set up proper this will go away...

 

[Mink]

No you didn't blow your D2000s.
The crumbling sound you describe is in the recording.
Nice song by the way

 

[Ham Sandwich]

Make sure your PC isn't doing any kind of signal processing, especially things like bass boost or EQ or any kind of audio effect.

Go into Control Panel >> Sound
Check the properties for the sound device you're using. Make sure nothing like bass boost or EQ is enabled.

Make sure iTunes isn't doing any EQ

The sound on that Mumford and Sons clip is already very hot. Close to clipping (if not already clipping on the peaks). Any additional bass boost would almost certainly cause obvious clipping and that type of digital clipping may be what you are hearing as a crumply sound.

 

[theHof]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mink /img/forum/go_quote.gif No you didn't blow your D2000s. The crumbling sound you describe is in the recording. Nice song by the way

Alright, well I feel a bit better knowing my D2ks should be fine, and yeah if you haven't checked out the Mumford & Sons album I would highly recommend it! Makes me sad though the clipping is in the recording.


Quote:

Originally Posted by Ham Sandwich /img/forum/go_quote.gif Make sure your PC isn't doing any kind of signal processing, especially things like bass boost or EQ or any kind of audio effect. Go into Control Panel >> Sound Check the properties for the sound device you're using. Make sure nothing like bass boost or EQ is enabled. Make sure iTunes isn't doing any EQ The sound on that Mumford and Sons clip is already very hot. Close to clipping (if not already clipping on the peaks). Any additional bass boost would almost certainly cause obvious clipping and that type of digital clipping may be what you are hearing as a crumply sound.

I did all this, I didn't have any bass boost, and my itunes eq is flat. I did have some modest eq'ing on my pre but i even flattened that out, still getting that clipping though, oh well I guess haha.

 

[Ham Sandwich]

Quote:

Originally Posted by theHof /img/forum/go_quote.gif I did all this, I didn't have any bass boost, and my itunes eq is flat. I did have some modest eq'ing on my pre but i even flattened that out, still getting that clipping though, oh well I guess haha.

That's the curse of good headphones with modern (too hot, loudnessed) recordings. Good headphones will make the clipping more obvious.

One thing you could do just to familiarize yourself with what digital clipping sounds like in the bass. Find a good quality recording with good bass and some bass punch. Something that doesn't already clip. Then play it on the computer while adding bass boost with the EQ. Add enough bass EQ to force clipping. Then you'll know what the clipping on bass notes sounds like. It's probably that exact crumply sound that you're hearing.

Better headphone amps can make the digital clipping in the bass less annoying or toned down a bit, especially with low impedance headphones like the Denon. If the headphone out is already struggling to provide enough current (low impedance headphones need more current from the amp) you may be already getting some distortion in the bass due to the amp not having enough control and power for the Denons. So you'll be getting some distortion and lack of control already before even any effects of digital clipping in the bass. Add the two together (lack of control from the amp and the digital clipping) and you get a double whammy.

I don't know what quality of headphone amp is in the Kenwood preamp you have. Sometimes they can be quite wimpy for the needs of the Denon (and other times quite fine). If it's a wimpy amp you'll get distortion and lack of control in the bass even on recordings that have no clipping.

So find some bass heavy recordings that you can confirm have no clipping and no audio problems with the bass. Listen to them on your kenwood pre and see if you hear any bass problems. If you hear bass problems (worbles, crumply sounds, etc) then the problem is the headphone out on the kenwood pre.

Or as an alternative find someone who has a quality headphone amp that can handle the Denons and see if you get the same kind of bass distortions (that's something you can do at a headphone meet).

I've heard my Denon D2000 distort in the bass due to an underpowered undercapable headphone amp. It doesn't sound good at all.

 

[artforme]

that's what you get when mixing hi-fi equipment, with lo-fi recordings.

I'm a big fan of lo-fi as well by the way...

 

[theHof]

I will check out some other high quality recordings, however I am just quite sure it's my current power setup that's making it so bad. And Mumford & Sons wouldn't really be considered low-fi would it? When I think lo-fi i think early Mountain Goats, Early early Modest Mouse or Pavement.

 

[Ham Sandwich]

If you're getting a lot of crumply sounds with the Mumford and Sons clip I would be strongly suspecting at this point that it's the headphone out on Kenwood pre that is causing the distortion. It seems we've eliminated the digital clipping since you're not doing digital EQ or digital bass boost. There is some digital distortion in the YouTube clip, but nothing bad (by modern recording standards) and not a constant or regularly occurring crumply sound.

The Mumford and Sons isn't low fi. It's hi fi. The complaint would be that its not "audiophile" since it is loudnessed and has lost dynamics and the sense of air and space that an "audiophile" recording can have. It's what recordings are in the current loudness war era.

I'm not going to judge their CD quality based off a YouTube clip. YouTube clips can end up more compressed, boosted and normalized than the audio that is on a CD release. The CD release could be better.

 

[theHof]

As far loudness goes, i've read that Californication is a very loud album, but the vinyl is better sounding, is this fairly consistent among 'loud' recordings.

 

[Ham Sandwich]

Quote:

Originally Posted by theHof /img/forum/go_quote.gif As far loudness goes, i've read that Californication is a very loud album, but the vinyl is better sounding, is this fairly consistent among 'loud' recordings.

Not consistent. Often nowadays the vinyl version is done from the same master as the CD. So no difference in dynamics compression level. Same sound as the CD. Only difference would be how vinyl playback reacts when trying to play a clipped off waveform compared to digital. A bit of a ripoff for those paying more for vinyl than the CD version.

If they do actually do a separate mastering for the vinyl then you can get some benefits and have vinyl that sounds better than the massmarket CD version.

One band that did that is Mudcrutch (Tom Petty). They made a special vinyl master and the vinyl version came with a special version of the CD as well. Both the vinyl and the CD are quiet with dynamics (not loudnessed). It even comes with a note telling you to turn it up because it is not as loud as common CDs. But you have to buy the vinyl to get that CD version. The massmarket CD got the massmarket loudness treatment.

 

[theHof]

i don't really feel like starting a new thread for this but I haven't really been able to find it anywhere too easily. But as I look for my next pair of headphones I just wanted to know what genres are D2000's best fitting? My next pair will be a more dedicated rock/indie and I've seen Grado's are at the forefront of that so I consider the RS2 but then the AT A900 and AD900 are also supposed to be good for rock. The A900 is a closed back headphone though, so I wonder if it'd really be much different from my D2ks.

 

[dorkvader]

I wouldn't say the AD900 is good for rock, because it really depends on what type. They don't rally have a lot of bass. I'd keep the denons for hard rock, hard-ish rock, etc. I really enjoy the AD900 for progressive rock (rush/pink floyd, etc.) and older stuff (from -like- the '60s) and they're great with anything soundstagey (I just listened to virtual barbershop again, it's frighteningly good). I haven't tried any indie yet.

But for most rock, I'd go with a grado. That's why I'm saving up for an SR225i soon.