[AndreasG]

Hi,

I have been using Sennheiser HD650s for some time now and really appreciate the qualities that they have. But for some of my music I still feel that there is better headphone for me... Sometimes the HD650s just sound too dark, too veiled, too muddy. This especially bothers me when listening to rock music.

So now I am looking for some new headphones to complement (or even replace) my HD650s. They should sound brighter, more punchy, more involving than HD650, but still somewhat neutral. They can be full-sized cans, but I also would not mind if they were portable. My source is an AOS Flute at the moment, but I am considering buying a new DAC for my stereo euipment, which might be a Benchmark DAC1. I live in Germany. Here are some of the obvious choices I am considering:

AKG 701 (300-350 Euro):
Some people said that it is in some ways rather similar to the HD650, so this might not be what I am looking for. Otherwise this seems to be a very good headphone...

Sony SA5000 (500 Euro):
From the descriptions I read, this may be exactly what I am looking for. But I am a little bit scared away by some remarks about issues with build quality etc... Plus 500 Euro are a lot of money.

Beyerdynamic DT880 (200 Euro):
Affordable. Any remarks on sound quality in comparison to the others?

Etymotic ER-4P/S (250 Euro):
Something completely different, good for portable use. Can they replace full-sized headphones like the ones mentioned before?

Ultimate Ears UE 5/7/10 (1100 Euro):
Those are insanely expensive here in Germany, but maybe they are worth it? And I would not need to look further for headphones to use with my iPod. Can those in-ears compete with the full-sized cans mentioned before? If yes, it may be worthwhile considering them as the "one and only" headphone for alle uses (exept sports maybe).

Sensaphonics:
Don't even know if I can get those here in Germany. Very expensive. How do they compare to the UEs?

Any other suggestions? Thanks for your advice...

Andreas

 

[halcyon]

My personal opinion:

AKG 701 - Can't comment yet, not heard.

Sony SA5000 - I don't consider them neutral in the critical mid-band. Honky is the word I've used. They have redeeming qualities though.

Etymotic ER-4P/S (250 Euro) - Don't consider these particularly neutral either. They IMHO need an equalisation fix. Too thin and too upper-mids/lower-highs pronounced.

Ultimate Ears UE 5/7/10 - no comment, haven't heard.

One option is of course Grado, although I've personally yet to find a model that I like myself (but I haven't tried them all). Prices in Europe will be higher of course.

Out of the options give, I'd go out and test (before buying) AKG K701 if you can. Then Beyer DT880. They are much cheaper than the other ones and better value in Europe.

 

[TheSloth]

I'm committing the usual head-fi crime of commenting on things I haven't yet heard, but judging from the overall response, it seems like the 701 is right up your street (and mine). It seems to retain the bass and warmth of the 650, but with a slightly brighter (more accurate?) upper end. To my ears, the 880 is a shade brighter than 'neutral'. And I suppose the 650 is a shade darker than 'netural' (though for what I listen to, in my system, overall it's still closer than anything else (K701 on the way though...)).

 

[Riku540]

Quote:

Originally Posted by halcyon One option is of course Grado, although I've personally yet to find a model that I like myself.

Unless you are talking about the older Grado line, the current Grados are not neutral (which is most likely the reason he/she left them out of the list in the first place). If I had to suggest an alternative, I've heard that the Alessandro versions are much more neutral.

 

[Andrea]

Have you considered changing something upstream in your system? It sounds like you aren't having a good synergy between the phones and the amp/source to me.

 

[Oddball]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Riku540 If I had to suggest an alternative, I've heard that the Alessandro versions are much more neutral.

They are. Have you thought of the MS2i? They're more neutral than their John Grado counterparts and I find them detailed and engaging. I'm not sure how much they cost in Europe though.

 

[Andresin]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Oddball They are. Have you thought of the MS2i? They're more neutral than their John Grado counterparts and I find them detailed and engaging. I'm not sure how much they cost in Europe though.

They cost 299$ from alessandro +16% german VAT.

 

[kramer5150]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Oddball They are. Have you thought of the MS2i? They're more neutral than their John Grado counterparts and I find them detailed and engaging. I'm not sure how much they cost in Europe though.

x2... not exactly neutral... But IMHO the most neutral Grado under ~$300

 

[Trogdor]

SA5K all the way. If you want detail, these are the cans.

In terms of neutrality, this is very relative term. Certainly Grados are not neutral by any means and I have not heard enough of the others (I've never heard a UE10 but have dabbled with the 701 and 880).

I'm not sure what are the issues with build quality and the SA5K. They are quite durable headphones?!

 

[cheechoz]

If you want mega detail, then the SA5000 is the answer! But, if your concerned with good rocking bass reponse, then I would look into the Grado line.

 

[photobob]

Grado HP-2, if you can find a pair on the used market.
Totally neutral and not bright
I'm not a Grado fan, in general, but I love these.

 

[philodox]

Grado HP2 or AKG K340. The first is perhaps slightly more neutral and involving and the second is slightly more detailed. Branching off into qualities that you didn't specify though, the AKG's have amazing imaging and soundstaging.

I've settled into K340's and HF1's myself. The HF1's have a bit too much bass and not enough definition in the lower end, but that is great for certain kinds of music. The way that they handle guitar and rock music is worth their price tag and they are very involving. A great 'fun' headphone for when critical listening is not your first priority.

I haven't heard the K701's or the custom IEM's that you mentioned, but the rest are certainly not neutral... though the SA5000's and Etymotic's are detailed and the DT880's are involving. Out of what you listed I would only be happy with the DT880 as a primary headphone though there are better choices I think. I do want to give those K701's a try, but from the early impressions that have been floating around they don't look to be a great match for me.

 

[raisin]

As long as you're not a big rock fan, the sa5000's sound right up your alley.

 

[sean-xenos]

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheSloth I'm committing the usual head-fi crime of commenting on things I haven't yet heard, but judging from the overall response, it seems like the 701 is right up your street (and mine). It seems to retain the bass and warmth of the 650, but with a slightly brighter (more accurate?) upper end. To my ears, the 880 is a shade brighter than 'neutral'. And I suppose the 650 is a shade darker than 'netural' (though for what I listen to, in my system, overall it's still closer than anything else (K701 on the way though...)).

Yes, commenting on cans you haven't heard is a bad habit

.
The K701 does not retain the bass and warmth of the HD650!
It sounds colder, the bass is tighter and more controlled especially compared to HD650s with stock cable.
The highs are more refined and have more detail, the soundstage and positioning is significantly better.
Is it more neutral? Probably depends on the kind of music you listen to.
To be honest, I have never heard completely neutral headphones. They probably don't exist.

 

[blessingx]

First... yes the Etys hold their own against the Senns. I've gone back and forth on which was my 'reference' cans and while it's been the Senns for a while, I'm always amazed when I go back to the detail (without being bright) and energy (without seemingly un-neutral) of the ER4Ss. Maybe this should be your choice just to cover the most bases (open v. closed, full-sized v. earphones, detail v. organic/warmth, etc.). Remember they use to be called around here "the poor mans Stax"). Never heard the Ultimate Ears though so not sure how they fit in to the choices.

Second, you really have to rank your desires. If 'neutral' is important it knocks out any currently produced Grado/Alessandro. Probably the Sonys too. I'm going to recommend the K701 are HD650 equivalent with a slightly more forward presentation. Sean-xenos is right though you lose the warmth.

Third, before you give up on the Senn (and why I prefer the HD650s to the K701 and is some cases the ER4S) is the Zu Mobius cable. This brings the Senns forward and equals the AKG in detail. When all is said and done (have to make a decision in the next couple of days) what I may love most about my K701 trial is how much appreciation it's given me for the Zu cable. Going back and forth (and back and forth...) between K701, HD650/stock and HD650/Zu, the latter hits a really sweet spot that's a combo of the other two. It's not a subtle difference adding the cable.