[juldupp]

What would you guys suggest for gaming and music with my HD600/ATX-1000z in the 500$ range.
With low input lag if possible, I am not aware if amps add a delay or not.
I would use the DAC on my pc's sound card (Asus Xonar STX II)
Are those good ones?
https://www.massdrop.com/buy/dark-voice-366se
https://www.massdrop.com/buy/nuforce-ha-200-headphone-amplifier
Thanks!

 

[ProtegeManiac]

Quote:

With low input lag if possible, I am not aware if amps add a delay or not.
I would use the DAC on my pc's sound card (Asus Xonar STX II)

 

There is no input lag on amplifiers, this is a matter of whether the DSP and DAC (or the software) have any delay in decoding, like how in video playback there are sometimes lags so you sync that by delaying the video output (on the receiver or player app).

 

 

Quote:

What would you guys suggest for gaming and music with my HD600/ATX-1000z in the 500$ range.
----
Are those good ones?
https://www.massdrop.com/buy/dark-voice-366se
https://www.massdrop.com/buy/nuforce-ha-200-headphone-amplifier

 

OK...first off, what is that ATX-1000Z?

 

I Googled it and I'm getting PC power supplies (ie, ATX and 1000). If that's what you're referring to it doesn't matter - if you're not getting any noise out of the soundcard now chances are there won't be any noise that will be that much worse with an amplifier, unless that amplifier piles on noise as well (or if it's a very clean amp otherwise, you might then amplify the signal loud enough to make the noise more audible than before).

 

If you're referring to the AudioTechnica ATH-W1000X, you might want to read up first on how the Dark Voice does with it. OTL (output Transformerless) tube amps tend to have difficulties driving lower impedance loads, like the 42ohm W1000X. 

 

[juldupp]

OK...first off, what is that ATX-1000Z?

I Googled it and I'm getting PC power supplies (ie, ATX and 1000). If that's what you're referring to it doesn't matter - if you're not getting any noise out of the soundcard now chances are there won't be any noise that will be that much worse with an amplifier, unless that amplifier piles on noise as well (or if it's a very clean amp otherwise, you might then amplify the signal loud enough to make the noise more audible than before).

If you're referring to the AudioTechnica ATH-W1000X, you might want to read up first on how the Dark Voice does with it. OTL (output Transformerless) tube amps tend to have difficulties driving lower impedance loads, like the 42ohm W1000X. 

Yes, I was refering to the ath-w1000z, the updated version of the w1000x.

But w/e I dont own them yet, (i do have hd600's) im just looking for closed back headphones with good sound insulation and I thought those wooden cups would sound good am I right? Plus they look pretty good.

Im quite new to the audiophile thing, as you can see I went for a safe choice (hd600) do you think I need a dac/amp combo or just an amp or nothing at all with my soundcard (asus essence stx II) I did search it up, some say that the dac is pretty good on the soundcard, some others bought external dac's for the original essence stx and youre saying if im not hearing any noise its fine, am I right?

Thanks

 

[T Bone]

Im quite new to the audiophile thing, as you can see I went for a safe choice (hd600) do you think I need a dac/amp combo or just an amp or nothing at all with my soundcard (asus essence stx II) I did search it up, some say that the dac is pretty good on the soundcard, some others bought external dac's for the original essence stx and youre saying if im not hearing any noise its fine, am I right?

If you've got a decent DAC in your soundcard already, you can save yourself quite a bit of $.  I'd stick with it until it becomes the limiting factor.  
If you want a good amplifier for under $500 - go right to Schiit.com 
An Asgard from Schiit is a fantastic amp for silly low money - only $249 and put $251 back in your pocket.
 
Check out this forum and you'll see that Schiit enjoys a great reputation.
 
I owned a Valhalla & HD650 - it was a great sounding system for the money.  

 

[ProtegeManiac]

Quote:

Yes, I was refering to the ath-w1000z, the updated version of the w1000x.

But w/e I dont own them yet, (i do have hd600's) im just looking for closed back headphones with good sound insulation and I thought those wooden cups would sound good am I right? Plus they look pretty good.

 

Look up the reviews on the ATs first to give you an idea what they generally sound like. As for the amplifier choice just make sure you take impedance and sensitivity ratings into account as the HD600 would be fine with OTL amps but not necessarily the AT.

 

Quote:

Im quite new to the audiophile thing, as you can see I went for a safe choice (hd600) do you think I need a dac/amp combo or just an amp or nothing at all with my soundcard (asus essence stx II) I did search it up, some say that the dac is pretty good on the soundcard, some others bought external dac's for the original essence stx and youre saying if im not hearing any noise its fine, am I right?

 

As long as there's no noise now and it gets up to a good volume it should be fine. Even if the amp is clean but will amplify everything better, if there's no audible noise now there's no chance it would be totally horrible even if it can in theory be made more audible by an amp. Stay at generally the same loudness level and it won't be any more audible unless the amp adds its own noise.

 

The reasoning behind using a DAC is more for its analogue output circuit, which tends to be at the right output voltage as per Sony Redbook, as well as being generally more transparent. When people use DAC-HPamps with soundcards the benefit really is that you bypass the analogue output circuit and then shorten the travel path of the analogue signal. Apart from that the soundcard will be fine.

 

 

[juldupp]

 

As long as there's no noise now and it gets up to a good volume it should be fine. Even if the amp is clean but will amplify everything better, if there's no audible noise now there's no chance it would be totally horrible even if it can in theory be made more audible by an amp. Stay at generally the same loudness level and it won't be any more audible unless the amp adds its own noise.

 

The reasoning behind using a DAC is more for its analogue output circuit, which tends to be at the right output voltage as per Sony Redbook, as well as being generally more transparent. When people use DAC-HPamps with soundcards the benefit really is that you bypass the analogue output circuit and then shorten the travel path of the analogue signal. Apart from that the soundcard will be fine.

 

After further examination, I noticed there's a bit of background noise by muting and un-muting my windows sound at the level I use it daily, when i turn back the sound It is noticeable.
 
So if I'm following you well it means I need a DAC + AMP and not just an AMP since it will amplify the background noise I'm hearing ?
 

  If you've got a decent DAC in your soundcard already, you can save yourself quite a bit of $.  I'd stick with it until it becomes the limiting factor.  
If you want a good amplifier for under $500 - go right to Schiit.com 
An Asgard from Schiit is a fantastic amp for silly low money - only $249 and put $251 back in your pocket.
 
Check out this forum and you'll see that Schiit enjoys a great reputation.
 
I owned a Valhalla & HD650 - it was a great sounding system for the money.  

Thanks for the reply, I've heard about this brand, they seem to have a pretty solid rep but the thing is, (as it may sound stupid) the unit is grey and I prefer black peripherals for my setup. 

 

 

[juldupp]

Was thinking about buying a m9XX DAC/Amp combo since it features great value. *I think*
 
Plus I read while searching that it sounds awesome with my hd600's.
 
Will using the 24bit toslink input on my soundcard  be detrimental to the sound quality compared to the 32bit usb input, read while searching you cant tell the difference between both.
 
Thing is I wanna use toslink to be able to use the settings from my soundcard drivers still.
 
You guys have anything to point out before I order it?
 
Thanks.

 

[tuunade98]

I'm also thinking about going down the same road. I've got a sound blaster z and am thinking about getting an amp and using the sound blaster z as a DAC. The amp I'm thinking about getting is a magni 2 uber or maybe just the magni 2, not sure yet if I actually need the extra ports on the uber. I'm also thinking about getting a sennheiser hd600 which is a 300ohms headphone. I currently have an audio technica ath-ad900x and a beyerdynamic dt 990 pro 250 ohms version. So the magni 2 would be perfect for me right? I don't think i will be getting another set of headphones any time soon after I get the hd600. 

 

[ProtegeManiac]

Quote:

Originally Posted by juldupp /img/forum/go_quote.gif

After further examination, I noticed there's a bit of background noise by muting and un-muting my windows sound at the level I use it daily, when i turn back the sound It is noticeable.

 

So if I'm following you well it means I need a DAC + AMP and not just an AMP since it will amplify the background noise I'm hearing ?

 

The amp will amplify that noise along with the rest of the signal but if it happens when you mute and un-mute it might be software related, so I can't be sure it will be totally gone. Unless I misunderstand what you're trying to say here - if you mute the sound, do you hear the noise? If that's the case then that's likely the audio hardware.

 

Get a DAC and HPamp, or a DAC-HPamp in one box, that has the same kind of SPDIF input as the SPDIF output on the soundcard. That way the DSP on the soundcard will still be used, so games still get virtual surround. But make sure it has a USB option, that way if the noise is still there, you can switch over to USB to check. If USB is cleaner than just use Razer Surround.

 

 

Quote:

Originally Posted by juldupp /img/forum/go_quote.gif

 

Thanks for the reply, I've heard about this brand, they seem to have a pretty solid rep but the thing is, (as it may sound stupid) the unit is grey and I prefer black peripherals for my setup. 

 

 

AudioGD NFB-11. DAC and HPamplifier in one box, has SPDIF coaxial and toslink, plus USB input. Also has output direct from DAC section or preamp output (passes through volume control), output selectable through switch on the front - that's a great asset in case you expand to speakers.

 

There's also the JDS Labs Element.

 

[juldupp]

 

 

The amp will amplify that noise along with the rest of the signal but if it happens when you mute and un-mute it might be software related, so I can't be sure it will be totally gone. Unless I misunderstand what you're trying to say here - if you mute the sound, do you hear the noise? If that's the case then that's likely the audio hardware.

 

Get a DAC and HPamp, or a DAC-HPamp in one box, that has the same kind of SPDIF input as the SPDIF output on the soundcard. That way the DSP on the soundcard will still be used, so games still get virtual surround. But make sure it has a USB option, that way if the noise is still there, you can switch over to USB to check. If USB is cleaner than just use Razer Surround.

Thanks for the reply,
to clarify things, when I mute my windows sound on the bottom right bar, the noise disappears.
 
Was thinking about buying a m9XX DAC/Amp combo since it features great value. (I think)
What do you think? It has toslink and usb input.
 
Edit: I just checked the 

AudioGD NFB-11, and realised it is an 8 channel audio dac, which is good for gaming. Still cant figure out which one of the two should I get.

 

[ProtegeManiac]

  to clarify things, when I mute my windows sound on the bottom right bar, the noise disappears.

 
Normally hardware-generated noise is more audible when the music is muted, or the player is stopped altogether. That's why my first test of an amplifier is to turn it up before I hit Play on whatever source is used.
 
If it goes away when muted it might be in the recordings and there's nothing to make that go away apart from finding a better copy, assuming there is one.
 
 

 
Was thinking about buying a m9XX DAC/Amp combo since it features great value. (I think)
What do you think? It has toslink and usb input.

 
Haven't tried that nor any of their other products, although I haven't really read any feedback about any flaws and glaring weaknesses.

 

[juldupp]

   
Normally hardware-generated noise is more audible when the music is muted, or the player is stopped altogether. That's why my first test of an amplifier is to turn it up before I hit Play on whatever source is used.
 
If it goes away when muted it might be in the recordings and there's nothing to make that go away apart from finding a better copy, assuming there is one.
 
 
 
Haven't tried that nor any of their other products, although I haven't really read any feedback about any flaws and glaring weaknesses.

I read that the 

AudioGD NFB-11 is compatible with 8 channel input's, which is really important for gaming and positioning even with stereo headphones, couldn't find anything on the m9xx though, are all the dac's/amps compatible with 8 channels? If the m9xx is aswell I'm probably going for it.

 

[ProtegeManiac]

Quote:

Originally Posted by juldupp /img/forum/go_quote.gif

I read that the 

AudioGD NFB-11 is compatible with 8 channel input's, which is really important for gaming and positioning even with stereo headphones, couldn't find anything on the m9xx though, are all the dac's/amps compatible with 8 channels? If the m9xx is aswell I'm probably going for it.

 

No it's not - the DSP on the soundcard is what's compatible with 8ch inputs, applies Dolby Headphone or other stereo virtual surround simulation to play it on 2channels with positional cues that somehow approximate directionality in a true, physically multichannel system, and then send out that modified signal through SPDIF.

 

Any DAC or DAC-HPamp that will take an SPDIF signal is compatible with a soundcard has a virtual surround feature on its DSP and can send it out via SPDIF. Basically, if you don't have such a soundcard, or your motherboard doesn't have that kind of chip, you will not get this to work. A lot of lesser motherboards can have DSPs that claim they have Dolby Headphone, but in many cases if these aren't the red motherboards/"Gaming" series, these only work on movies (I have a blue MSI and it works that way); note also that there are some "Gaming" motherboards that do not have this kind of DSP - ASRock for example has many of them that don't have stereo surround simulation.

 

[juldupp]

 

 

No it's not - the DSP on the soundcard is what's compatible with 8ch inputs, applies Dolby Headphone or other stereo virtual surround simulation to play it on 2channels with positional cues that somehow approximate directionality in a true, physically multichannel system, and then send out that modified signal through SPDIF.

 

Any DAC or DAC-HPamp that will take an SPDIF signal is compatible with a soundcard has a virtual surround feature on its DSP and can send it out via SPDIF. Basically, if you don't have such a soundcard, or your motherboard doesn't have that kind of chip, you will not get this to work. A lot of lesser motherboards can have DSPs that claim they have Dolby Headphone, but in many cases if these aren't the red motherboards/"Gaming" series, these only work on movies (I have a blue MSI and it works that way); note also that there are some "Gaming" motherboards that do not have this kind of DSP - ASRock for example has many of them that don't have stereo surround simulation.

Thanks for the help!
/closed

 

[Decommo]

Hello,
I might need help to understand technical terms of desktop amplifier. I am looking to purchase pure class A desktop headphone amplifier and was looking at iFi Micro iCAN Special Edition but spec does not seem right. It says that it has 4W output (iCAN normal edition has 0.4W output though) and it has Class A tube (that is the input stage). But the output stage does not seem to be class A.
It is powered by a 12W wall plug power pack. With only 12W of power, can it be built a 4W Class A amp? 4W per channel means 8W power consumption. Can it support with only 12W of power in total?  Can anyone help me to understand on this? It would be greatly appreciated. Thank you.