[TKvC-SainT]

Quote:

Originally Posted by musicmind /img/forum/go_quote.gif Yes, I think the AD2000 and ESW9 share some similarities with their bass performance, neither of them is boomy or loose in the bass area, but the ESW9 has less sense of texture and bass sounds a bit "thicker". The ESW9, perhaps because it makes firmer contact with the ear, has a little bit more sense of weight, but loses a bit of definition compared to the AD2000. For instance, when listening to an upright bass on the ESW9, the acoustic properties such as note decay are not as well produced. reproduced. Soundstage is also much more closed in. No surprise there, the AD2000 is great for giving a sense of space around acoustic instruments. BTW, I was using the Headroom portable micro for the comparison.

Oh cool, then I really think the AD2k could be for me. Will atleast have to try me a pair, then if it doesn´t suit me, well I could just resell it later.

Thanks, greatly appreciated your comment

 

[Fitz]

Oh man... if it were me, out of the ATs on that list I would go for the W11JPN in a heartbeat.

 

[Rednamalas1]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gradofan2 /img/forum/go_quote.gif The AD2K has great bass - deep, extended, prominent, tight with great impact. The bass does not extend as much into the lower mids, as the HD650 does - so the HD650 gives the impression that it has a bit more bass prominence. The bass on the AD2K is cleaner, faster, more precise - some would describe it as less "boomy" than the HD650 (without a huge investment in setup). The AD2K has a slightly leaner sound, with much greater clarity - similar to the RS-1. If you're a "basshead" who values "big bass" over other attributes - such as clarity, detail, air, PRAT, etc. - then you will be more pleased with the HD650. Or, if you plan to spend the "big bucks" on your set up - you may prefer the HD650. On the other hand... if you value those other attibutes, with good bass, which doesn't overwhelm the mids and highs - then you will be more pleased with the AD2K - especially, if you don't plan to spend the "big bucks" on your set up.

110% agreement

 

[Andrew_WOT]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Henmyr /img/forum/go_quote.gif I don't know if my pair is completely burned in yet (around 24 hours), but with my source and amp, the AD2000 is in no way a bass heavy can. It's about the same as DT880 for me, or maybe just slightly less. It was hard to know what to think about them since some people called them bass heavy and some bass light.

I honestly don't why it works this way for you.
Rating bass quantity alone I would put it somewhere in between K271S and HD650.
Here's the bass quantity rating of the most popular headphones I owned, in ascending order.
DT880
W5000
K271S
AD2000
HD650/ESW9
D2000

 

[Henmyr]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Andrew_WOT /img/forum/go_quote.gif I honestly don't why it works this way for you. Rating bass quantity alone I would put it somewhere in between K271S and HD650. Here's the bass quantity rating of the most popular headphones I owned, in ascending order. DT880 W5000 K271S AD2000 HD650/ESW9 D2000

The bass has changed a bit during burn in I believe. When I first got them, they were used 2-3 hours, and during the first 24 hours of listening, the bass was almost nonexistent. Then the bass started to appear and was just slightly less than dt880.

I probably have around 48 hours on them now, and the bass has now appeared. It's about even with dt880 now, maybe just slightly more this time. Hoping that it will become just slightly more during burn-in and I'm happy.

I'm using it with the headfive. I find it slightly better for AD2000 than the zero amp (I haven't done enough testing to be 100% sure, just my initial impression).

 

[Wilashort]

For you, which headphone has more bass slam, your AD2000 or your ex-DT990?? or even the DT880 '05 applies in this comparison vs the AD2000?
AH, how is the bass extension & slam in your Zero dac/amp vs your headfive and the highs are brighter or smooter?, because i want a DAC to sinergize with my DT990 and what has a Super huge soundstage and smooter treble and forward mids.
At purpose, how is the Soundstage/Headstage of your X-FI (with CMSS-3D in 90%) vs your DAC separately?
Thanks
Quote:

Originally Posted by Henmyr /img/forum/go_quote.gif The bass has changed a bit during burn in I believe. When I first got them, they were used 2-3 hours, and during the first 24 hours of listening, the bass was almost nonexistent. Then the bass started to appear and was just slightly less than dt880. I probably have around 48 hours on them now, and the bass has now appeared. It's about even with dt880 now, maybe just slightly more this time. Hoping that it will become just slightly more during burn-in and I'm happy. I'm using it with the headfive. I find it slightly better for AD2000 than the zero amp (I haven't done enough testing to be 100% sure, just my initial impression).

 

[Wilashort]

BUMP....

 

[Henmyr]

Quote:

Originally Posted by wilashort /img/forum/go_quote.gif For you, which headphone has more bass slam, your AD2000 or your ex-DT990?? or even the DT880 '05 applies in this comparison vs the AD2000? AH, how is the bass extension & slam in your Zero dac/amp vs your headfive and the highs are brighter or smooter?, because i want a DAC to sinergize with my DT990 and what has a Super huge soundstage and smooter treble and forward mids. At purpose, how is the Soundstage/Headstage of your X-FI (with CMSS-3D in 90%) vs your DAC separately? Thanks

I didn't have the DT990 and AD2000 at the same time, but some comments from memory:
The DT990 is the bassiest can of the two, no question. I find I like the AD2000 bass more though. For me, the DT990 bass for some reason lack something, can't put my finger on what that is. Could be a quick hard attack which is missing, and the AD2000 have this "it". When I had the DT990, I never really felt that they were the bassmonster that I wanted them to be. If they had been bassmonsters, I might have kept them even though their hights were a bit too much.

The DT880 and AD2000 have about as much bass, but the bass sound different. The DT880 have the "Beyer bass", which it shares with DT990. The "Beyer bass" is BIG, and is a large part of the Beyer sound.

The AD2000 have quick bass with good attack which doesn't get in the way of the midrange in any way. It's just there and does what it should do.

I don't have the Headfive anymore unfortunately. From memory: The soundstage is bigger in the Zero headamp, but it's not extremely large. The Little Dot MKIII has got a bigger soundstage. The hights of the Zero depends a lot of the OP-amp used. When using an OP-amp like the LT1469, the hights are very smooth and unharsh. The LT1057 might be a candidate for unharsh hights and a bit forward midrange.

I didn't have the DT990 very long after I got the Zero, and they barely did get any headtime, so I can not say how good it worked with the Zero. I liked the DT880 better than DT990, and I find the DT880 to work OK with the Zero.

"At purpose, how is the Soundstage/Headstage of your X-FI (with CMSS-3D in 90%) vs your DAC separately?"

Haven't tried this at all, but a guess is that the CMSS-3D is larger, as that is what it is supposed to do.

 

[Wilashort]

That can lack the DT990 in the bass area?, some low midbass weight and body?, maybe.... Because, i find it lacking some body; when i compared my dead HFI-780 to my DT990, can be that? or what in reality?, make a effort.
But the bass in the DT990 is fast, very fast and hit hard, or is that your AD2000 hit/slamming harder (obviously i don't refer to midbass boom boom but PUM PUM that is asociated to higher midbass zone and higbass specially)?
Well, for you which of the two sound more open? (It is very important if i want to consider another open headphone). how much better is the separation of voices/instruments in your AD2000, if you can quantify in %
And for last, is the mids of the AD2000 equal or/faster or/much faster than the DT990?, please remember that i don't refer to the position in the spectrum if no to the PRAT.
Ah, how is the isolation in your AD2000? (...i don't want almost any), and the leakage is a lot?
Another thing (for comparision purpose only), which of the two (RS-1 and it (AD2000)) has a bigger soundstage/headstage, better and faster mids and a deeper bass? and if it isn't much bother to you, which of the two hit harder too? and which leak more sound too.
Thank you very much in advance for your new answers...

And thanks for the rest too.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Henmyr /img/forum/go_quote.gif I didn't have the DT990 and AD2000 at the same time, but some comments from memory: The DT990 is the bassiest can of the two, no question. I find I like the AD2000 bass more though. For me, the DT990 bass for some reason lack something, can't put my finger on what that is. Could be a quick hard attack which is missing, and the AD2000 have this "it". When I had the DT990, I never really felt that they were the bassmonster that I wanted them to be. If they had been bassmonsters, I might have kept them even though their hights were a bit too much. The DT880 and AD2000 have about as much bass, but the bass sound different. The DT880 have the "Beyer bass", which it shares with DT990. The "Beyer bass" is BIG, and is a large part of the Beyer sound. The AD2000 have quick bass with good attack which doesn't get in the way of the midrange in any way. It's just there and does what it should do. I don't have the Headfive anymore unfortunately. From memory: The soundstage is bigger in the Zero headamp, but it's not extremely large. The Little Dot MKIII has got a bigger soundstage. The hights of the Zero depends a lot of the OP-amp used. When using an OP-amp like the LT1469, the hights are very smooth and unharsh. The LT1057 might be a candidate for unharsh hights and a bit forward midrange. I didn't have the DT990 very long after I got the Zero, and they barely did get any headtime, so I can not say how good it worked with the Zero. I liked the DT880 better than DT990, and I find the DT880 to work OK with the Zero. "At purpose, how is the Soundstage/Headstage of your X-FI (with CMSS-3D in 90%) vs your DAC separately?" Haven't tried this at all, but a guess is that the CMSS-3D is larger, as that is what it is supposed to do.

 

[Henmyr]

Remember that everything is from memory.

Quote:

Originally Posted by wilashort /img/forum/go_quote.gif That can lack the DT990 in the bass area?, some low midbass weight and body?, maybe.... Because, i find it lacking some body; when i compared my dead HFI-780 to my DT990, can be that? or what in reality?, make a effort.

Could be tightness. I find that the AD2000 have a harder hit, but without as much quantity as the DT990.

I feel that the Beyerdynamic sound lack body in a way. The hights through the midrange is very lite, almost featherlite, and a bass is added to that. With the AD2000, the midrange carry more body, which helps the sense of fullness. The HD650 have even more body in the midrange, but with a large amout of bass too, which made them sound very bassy.

Quote:

Originally Posted by wilashort /img/forum/go_quote.gif But the bass in the DT990 is fast, very fast and hit hard, or is that your AD2000 hit/slamming harder (obviously i don't refer to midbass boom boom but PUM PUM that is asociated to higher midbass zone and higbass specially)?

The AD2000 is rather fast, but I never felt that the DT990 was slow either when I had them. And the AD2000 hit rather hard yes. If I remember correctly, I also found the DT880 to have an even harder hit than DT990, but not as much quantity.

Quote:

Originally Posted by wilashort /img/forum/go_quote.gif Well, for you which of the two sound more open? (It is very important if i want to consider another open headphone).

Both sound open, but the DT990 had the largest soundstage I've heard short of Grado GS1000. This really helps the open sound. This would make the DT990 sound more slightly more open than AD2000.

Quote:

Originally Posted by wilashort /img/forum/go_quote.gif how much better is the separation of voices/instruments in your AD2000, if you can quantify in %

As I haven't got them side by side, I can't make a true comparison. I do find the Beyers (DT990, DT880) to have very good separation. The large soundstage of the Beyers makes it easier to hear every instrument. I would say that the DT990 probably would win in separation.

Quote:

Originally Posted by wilashort /img/forum/go_quote.gif And for last, is the mids of the AD2000 equal or/faster or/much faster than the DT990?, please remember that i don't refer to the position in the spectrum if no to the PRAT.

There is a VERY large difference in midrange between the two. The AD2000 have a very pronounced midrange, which I really like. I didn't feel that the midrange of the DT990 was recessed when I had them, but this was only because of the fact that I had not heard a lot of headphones at that time. Now that I'm used to the AD2000 and RS1, I even feel that the DT880 has a recessed midrange. I can't say from memory which one has the fastest midrange though.

The PRAT of the two would be a very personal thing. In the DT990, the bass and treble is driving the music forward. In the AD2000, it's the midrange. I personally think that the AD2000 have more PRAT than the DT990 ever had.

Quote:

Originally Posted by wilashort /img/forum/go_quote.gif Ah, how is the isolation in your AD2000? (...i don't want almost any), and the leakage is a lot?

There is no isolation what so ever. Completely open.

Quote:

Originally Posted by wilashort /img/forum/go_quote.gif Another thing (for comparision purpose only), which of the two (RS-1 and it (AD2000)) has a bigger soundstage/headstage, better and faster mids and a deeper bass?and if it isn't much bother to you, which of the two hit harder too? and which leak more sound too.

They are both completely open, so both will leak very much sound. I do however feel that Grados tend to leak more.

The AD2000 have a larger soundstage. The RS1 tend to focus the sound in a very small space. They still sound very very open and airy though, so the small soundstage does not make them sound compressed which could have been the case.

Which one has better mids is a very personal thing. The RS1 have more warmth in the midrange, and I do not feel that warmth feel very natural. For my taste, the AD2000 have the overall better midrange. Acoustic guitars are better on the RS1 (but from memory I like the electric guitars better with MS2i), while I feel that vocals are better with AD2000. The AD2000 midrange feel very transparent (since I added the fatpad mod) but is still just magical and musical.

The RS1 midrange might be technically better, with better low level dynamics, but I like the AD2000 midrange tonality more. With low level dynamics, I mean that the RS1 tend to very effortless present volume differences within each word, something which I never heard before. This low level dynamic almost chocked me at first, and I find this to be a very desiarable thing. This adds a lot to clarity and air in the midrange. The AD2000 has got very good macro dynamics, but not micro dynamics within each word like the RS1. I have never heard the low level dynamics in the MS2i either, and this make the RS1 sound like the higher end headphone that it really is compared to it.

Both are good when it comes to the bass. The RS1 have the famous Grado punch, which to my ears is very focused around the kickdrum. Both have fast bass. Would be hard to crown a winner here.

The RS1 and AD2000 are both excellent headphones, and the preference is just a matter of taste. Both have an excellent midrange, the RS1 slightly warmer and the AD2000 more neutral/colder/natural to my ears.

I'm not sure I will keep the RS1 as I tend to like the AD2000 more on every type of music, but the RS1 still sound very very good.

 

[Gradofan2]

"Henmyr's" description of the AD2000s compared to the RS-1s and HD650s is very accurate.

The AD2000s really are great phones.

But... then so are the RS-1s, the HD580/600s (which sound very similar to the AD2000s), and the D5000s.

Its hard to make a choice of only one.

Though... I suppose... it might be the AD2000s... if... one had to do so.

Or... maybe the HD580/600s... or... maybe...

 

[Wilashort]

Yes i known
Quote:

Originally Posted by Henmyr /img/forum/go_quote.gif Remember that everything is from memory.

Ok, but equally, the quantity in the DT990 isn't a lot in the midbass compared to a Denon headphone or to my DT990 with DT770pro pads (nor near). it is more balanced and not a boomy bass. I have now an image of the AD2000 bass.
Quote:

Could be tightness. I find that the AD2000 have a harder hit, but without as much quantity as the DT990.

Yes, you have reason and is my main complain with this headphone, with the music that i most like (this midrange is somewhat laidback); because i have to use EQ in the upper midrange to make it sound more energetic/fun and with more emotion/volume. but even so it isn't completely involving,
Quote:

The hights through the midrange is very lite, almost featherlite With the AD2000, the midrange carry more body, which helps the sense of fullness.

Is very good that, but i can't to bear a very dark, very slow and laidback headphone as it (IIMMHO).
Quote:

The HD650 have even more body in the midrange, but with a large amout of bass too, which made them sound very bassy.

But Henmyr, then the bass in this headphone hit harder than the DT990, or slightly less or slightly more???. I want to be sure, because it seem as an very interesting headphone (and it's in reality, although the price is high, but...)
Quote:

The AD2000 is rather fast, but I never felt that the DT990 was slow either when I had them. And the AD2000 hit rather hard yes.

as can be it possible, i don't believe... but ok, not matter.
Quote:

If I remember correctly, I also found the DT880 to have an even harder hit than DT990, but not as much quantity.

Ok, it then isn't a problem. My XMOD Can help here a lot with the soundstage.
Quote:

Both sound open, but the DT990 had the largest soundstage I've heard short of Grado GS1000. This really helps the open sound. This would make the DT990 sound more slightly more open than AD2000.

But i am not only refering to instruments only, but to voices and sound effects too (even simultaneous sources, for example: a TV serie in one languaje and the same serie in a video file, but in another languaje (that i can listen clearly every voice/sound as clearly as if it were only alone and not blurred or almost mixed) ), all sounding at the same time (the separation of very complex sounds, sounding at the same time). A comparison will be very useful with your DT880 (because you don't have the DT990 anymore), because it is another of the things that i want to known and that more interest me too.
Quote:

As I haven't got them side by side, I can't make a true comparison. I do find the Beyers (DT990, DT880) to have very good separation. The large soundstage of the Beyers makes it easier to hear every instrument. I would say that the DT990 probably would win in separation.

Quote:

There is a VERY large difference in midrange between the two. The AD2000 have a very pronounced midrange, which I really like. I didn't feel that the midrange of the DT990 was recessed when I had them, but this was only because of the fact that I had not heard a lot of headphones at that time. Now that I'm used to the AD2000 and RS1, I even feel that the DT880 has a recessed midrange. I can't say from memory which one has the fastest midrange though.

I refer principally to the midrange performance (speed, principally with very fast music). Yes, i known that the bass and treble doesn't have problems with speed (i like a lot them as it are (only want that the treble to be less prominent with some music )), but... OK, reading the last.
Quote:

The PRAT of the two would be a very personal thing. In the DT990, the bass and treble is driving the music forward. In the AD2000, it's the midrange. I personally think that the AD2000 have more PRAT than the DT990 ever had.

Ok, i said it, because the DT990 is open too, but it isolate a lot, even slightly more than my DT770pro.
Quote:

There is no isolation what so ever. Completely open.

OK & OK, but i prefer the first
Quote:

They are both completely open, so both will leak very much sound. I do however feel that Grados tend to leak more. The AD2000 have a larger soundstage. The RS1 tend to focus the sound in a very small space. They still sound very very open and airy though, so the small soundstage does not make them sound compressed which could have been the case.

I prefer the AD2000 sound then. after of all ,i am not a Jazz lover or classical rock lover; and for classical, i have my DT990 for that. And i can consider the D5000 as a closed alternative to the AD2000 for classical too and trance; and is the best too. Because to his low isolation that i prefer (i hope that the leakage isn't a problem with this headphone in higher volumes), or for some other music, in the near future of before....
Thanks again in advance...

Quote:

Which one has better mids is a very personal thing. The RS1 have more warmth in the midrange, and I do not feel that warmth feel very natural. For my taste, the AD2000 have the overall better midrange. Acoustic guitars are better on the RS1 (but from memory I like the electric guitars better with MS2i), while I feel that vocals are better with AD2000. The AD2000 midrange feel very transparent (since I added the fatpad mod) but is still just magical and musical. The RS1 midrange might be technically better, with better low level dynamics, but I like the AD2000 midrange tonality more. With low level dynamics, I mean that the RS1 tend to very effortless present volume differences within each word, something which I never heard before. This low level dynamic almost chocked me at first, and I find this to be a very desiarable thing. This adds a lot to clarity and air in the midrange. The AD2000 has got very good macro dynamics, but not micro dynamics within each word like the RS1. I have never heard the low level dynamics in the MS2i either, and this make the RS1 sound like the higher end headphone that it really is compared to it. Both are good when it comes to the bass. The RS1 have the famous Grado punch, which to my ears is very focused around the kickdrum. Both have fast bass. Would be hard to crown a winner here. The RS1 and AD2000 are both excellent headphones, and the preference is just a matter of taste. Both have an excellent midrange, the RS1 slightly warmer and the AD2000 more neutral/colder/natural to my ears. I'm not sure I will keep the RS1 as I tend to like the AD2000 more on every type of music, but the RS1 still sound very very good.