Denafrips 'Pontus' R2R ladder DAC - close up view
Jul 4, 2022 at 12:41 PM Post #1,081 of 1,800
For past and current owners of the Pontus 2, any thing sonically you wish was better or felt that some areas were lacking compared to other dacs?
No, in fact, the longer I have it, the less I'm interested in considering anything else. I recently listened to a dcs Bartok. While that may have been better in terms of some "audiophile" metrics, I found myself thinking during the audition that I thought I might have liked the sound of the Pontus more. After coming home and listening more to my own system, I still have the same impression. After reading a review that compared 4 Denafrips DACS, I don't know that I even want to try the Venus.

https://www.hifi-advice.com/blog/re...es-ii-pontus-ii-venus-ii-and-terminator-plus/

The Pontus has a very natural sound and presents multiple layers of music with balance while I found the presentation of the dcs Bartok tended to focus on the primary components of music.

If you're interested, I can share more thoughts on the Pontus versus other DACS I've heard including some of the Chord DACS.
 
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Jul 4, 2022 at 12:54 PM Post #1,082 of 1,800
No, in fact, the longer I have it, the less I'm interested in considering anything else. I recently listened to a dcs Bartok. While that may have been better in terms of some "audiophile" metrics, I found myself thinking during the audition that I thought I might have liked the sound of the Pontus more. After coming home and listening more to my own system, I still have the same impression. After reading a review that compared 4 Denafrips DACS, I don't know that I even want to try the Venus.

https://www.hifi-advice.com/blog/re...es-ii-pontus-ii-venus-ii-and-terminator-plus/

The Pontus has a very natural sound and presents multiple layers of music with balance while I found the presentation of the dcs Bartok tended to focus on the primary components of music.

If you're interested, I can share more thoughts on the Pontus versus other DACS I've heard including some of the Chord DACS.
Thanks for the feedback. Please share more of your thoughts vs other dacs you have compared to. Do you find the Pontus 2 to lack in dynamics and slam, rythym and drive? That's what some negatives I have read from some comments written on YouTube videos.
 
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Jul 4, 2022 at 3:01 PM Post #1,083 of 1,800
Thanks for the feedback. Please share more of your thoughts vs other dacs you have compared to. Do you find the Pontus 2 to lack in dynamics and slam, rythym and drive? That's what some negatives I have heard from some comments written on YouTube videos.
Ok, I can answer that pretty well. I'll start with a summary, then drop in all of my listening notes to several DACs if you want to get into that depth of detail.

I'll start off with a list of DACs that I've heard since the middle of 2020 before and after getting the Pontus in April 2021 if you want to discuss how the Pontus compares to any of these:

1. Audioquest Dragonfly Red
2. Rega DAC
3. Denafrips Ares II
4. Simaudio Moon 280D
5. Chord Qutest
6. Denafrips Pontus II
7. Chord Hugo TT / MScaler
8. Schiit Yggdrasil
9. Naim NDX 2 network music player
10 dcs Bartok network music player

Summary: Comparing other DACs to the Pontus, I there are two different styles in how DACs can present music.
  • Many DACs: A lot of DACs that I've listened to seem to focus on traditional audiophile virtues of resolution, clarity, soundstage. One interesting characteristic is that these DACs seem to emphasize the primary components of music and downplay other parts of music. (perhaps this is comparison to the Denafrips Pontus II). Their pace and rhythm tends to come from the "beat" of the music rather than pace generated by how different voices and instruments engage in a musical performance, or from pace generated by tonal variations.
  • Pontus II: In comparison, the Pontus seems to have a more balanced presentation of the multiple elements in music. The presentation is perhaps more holistic in character. I can better hear how the parts of different performers come together to create the musical performance. The Pontus definitely has pace and drive (PRaT, if you will), but it is pace generated by the synergy of how different performers are interacting together along with the "beat" of the music. I personally find the Pontus' pace and timing to be more engaging than what I've heard from other DAC
Considerations: To me, the biggest question about whether you would like the character of the Pontus is the type of music you listen to. If you like vocals and acoustic instruments, I would say that the Pontus is a slam-dunk as a choice.

Pontus vs Qutest: Listeners that want a sharp cut-glass feel to their music might not appreciate the Pontus as much. The Pontus digs out a lot of detail, but it presents detail in a way that sounds natural. If you listen to a lot of electronic music and are looking for razor-sharp sounding transients, the Pontus might not fit your preferences as much as the Qutest.

The dynamics and slam that the Qutest provides feels more immediate, but I would say that it of a more artificial character. Good for emphasizing the beat of Electronic Dance Music; perhaps not as good for acoustic music or vocals. FWIW, I like the Pontus for rock as well. The tonal color that the Pontus brings out adds to the perception of pace.

Pontus vs dcs Bartok: The dcs Bartok was an impressive sounding DAC for sure. When listening to orchestral music and opera, it presented a big and expansive soundstage. Imaging and placement of voices and instruments was super solid and precise. Resolution of tonal quality was also very precise, but not as natural sounding as from the Pontus.


What the Pontus did better was to provide a more balanced presentation of all parts of a music performance; the Bartok tended to emphasize primary elements of music. What I probably prefer most in terms of music genres are jazz and vocals with a small number of performers. I might prefer the Bartok for large-scale orchestral music, but like the agility and deftness that the Pontus lends to smaller-scale, more intimate music. I will say that the presence and naturalness (organic nature?) of how solo voices are presented from the Pontus is intoxicating.

The Bartok is definitely bigger in its presentation. The Pontus feels more intimate and insightful in its presentation.
 
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Jul 4, 2022 at 3:03 PM Post #1,084 of 1,800
Raw listening notes of Qutest vs Pontus (and a bit about the Schiit Yggdrasil)

I've had a Chord Qutest in my system for the past 2 months with the intention of comparing it to the Denafrips Pontus II.

Background on the Qutest as a reference point: The Qutest sounded really good with notably a high level of detail retrieval. There were two shortcomings that stood out for me about the Qutest.
  1. With the stock power supply, there was a slight, and I do mean slight, degree of harshness. I found that using a pretty common Anker phone/laptop backup battery both reduced the noise floor and took away that slight bit of harshness. NOTE: if you try this, make sure the battery's output is 5V.
  2. The Qutest is exceptionally detailed in its sound. But, the Qutest conveyed that detail in a way that seemed artificially Technicolor. Meaning that there was a lot of detail, but either conveyed to a degree or conveyed in a way that didn't feel natural or lifelike to me. It sounded slightly, and again I do mean slightly, more "audiophile" than musical in sound.

My Objectives for getting the Pontus: In my decision to try out the Pontus, my objective was to get 90% of resolution that a Qutest provides with more of the warmth that I heard in the Denafrips Ares II. Harshness and listening fatigue are very real problems for me with digital audio so a balance of detail and warmth is important for me.

Impressions of the Pontus:


Resolution and Warmth:
I always thought that resolution and warmth were traits on two opposite ends of a spectrum. It has already been eye-opening that Pontus actually seems to have even more detail and resolution than the Qutest and also more smoothness and warmth than the Ares II. What's interesting is that this resolution is delivered in a more lifelike and natural sounding way than via the Qutest. I'm noticing this right now with the piano and string bass in the 'Pueblo Nuevo' track on the Buena Vista Social Club recording as well as the trumpet and the tonal quality of metal and wood percussion instruments. The Pontus sounds both smooth and full in its sound. One artist for which this unique combination of resolution and warmth really does justice is Jimi Hendrix. I often have not liked to listen to Hendrix on digital due to harshness and noise from jitter and analog sources, compared to my typically better experience of listening to Jimi Hendrix on vinyl. I'm not finding this to be the case with the Pontus. Jimi Hendrix' Voodoo Child is sounding both engaging and listenable via the Pontus.

With the Pontus powered by a Shunyata Venom power cord, I'm hearing no sense of the slight harshness that I heard from the Ares. I also have a Synergistic Research UEF Blue power cord that made the Ares II DAC sound smoother without any loss of detail. I'll try that out on the Pontus DAC in a couple of days to see if it makes any difference to the sound of the Pontus.


Presence: Instruments and voices are conveyed by the Pontus with what sounds like an appropriate level of weight for each instrument. On the 'Orgullecida' track on the Buena Vista Social Club recording, the string bass has a greater level of fullness in its presentation than the voices, electric guitar and trumpet as would be appropriate in real life. In contrast, the Qutest communicates the details but seems to be less able to convey the weight and fullness of each voice and instrument's sound. The 'air' around voices are also conveyed by the Pontus in a very palpable way but with a sense of refinement and restraint that sounds realistic when compared to a real-life performance. In the Cowboy Junkies' 'Trinity Sessions' recording, I hear this very clearly in the 'Blue Moon Revisited' track.


Soundstage: The Pontus definitely has a broader and fuller soundstage than the Ares and the Qutest as well, I think. The fullness of the Pontus sound might be a major contributor to my perception that it has a bigger soundstage than the Qutest. I hear this in the Cowboy Junkies' Trinity Sessions album.


Pace & Emotional Range: What appeals to me most about the Pontus and perhaps what I noticed first was wide range of pace that the Pontus is able to convey. Some DACs like the Qutest have good pace. Other DACs such as the Ares II sound more relaxed. It's intriguing to hear a DAC that can sound both relaxed as well as upbeat and dynamic as needed. For the Pontus, that ability allows it to sound relaxed and calm or energetic and dynamic depending on the music being played. Music through the Pontus seems to be conveyed as the artist or composer intended instead of the Pontus imposing its own sonic signature onto the music. Examples of these two ends of this scale that I have heard are Sara Watkins' new 'Under the Pepper Tree' album versus Les McCann & Eddie Harris' excellent 'Swiss Movement' recording of their performance at the Montreux Jazz Festival.


Flow & Continuity: Consistent with my comments on the Pontus' adaptability in terms of pace and emotional range, it is conveys the flow of music really well. Its presentation makes it easy to "follow the tune" when listening to music. For lack of a better way to describe this quality of the Pontus, I would say that it has a lot of patience in how it conveys music. It's not in a rush to get the next note out as the Qutest sometimes seems to be, but can play quicker or slower depending on emotional nature of the music. The 'Murmullo' track on the Buena Vista Social Club recording has a languid pace that the Pontus conveys well while not losing the underlying drive behind the music. Partly this is due to good timing, but the Pontus' ability to convey tonal colors also helps it to provide this sense of drive and forward movement even on music that is not conducive to an insistent sense of pace. I'd like to highlight one recording on which I'm hearing this quality from the Pontus, but the truth is that I hear this sense of flow on everything I'm listening to with the Pontus.


Sound quality of streamed versus local files: Something else that I've heard is that the Pontus seems to at least narrow the sonic difference between streamed Qobuz files and local files. Local files have always sounded better to me. I attribute that to a shorter signal chain without the digital and analog (such as EMI) noise that might come in through being sent through the internet and then transmitted through my local network. Listening to local files and the equivalent music track from Qobuz were so very close in sound quality when doing sighted listening, that I'm don't know if I could distinguish the difference in blind testing.


What listening preferences would the Pontus fit well: The Pontus would be a great choice for anyone that appreciates the sound and feel of live music. More than any other DAC I heard, the Pontus seems to savor the texture and feel of every note of music. The Pontus does particularly well with reproducing the textures, tonal quality and emotions of voices and acoustic music.


What listening preferences would the Pontus not fit as well: Listeners that want a sharp cut-glass feel to their music might not appreciate the Pontus as much. The Pontus digs out a lot of detail, but it presents detail in a way that sounds natural. If you listen to a lot of electronic music and are looking for razor-sharp sounding transients, the Pontus might not fit your preferences as much as the Qutest.


Summary: I'm sure there are more expensive DACs that might improve on some of the performance aspects of the Pontus, but I am so impressed by the natural and lifelike way that the Pontus communicates music with no apparent shortcomings in resolution of detail, pace, or tonal quality. I greatly appreciate that the Pontus seems to be causing no listening fatigue for me while still presenting music in a full and detailed sounding manner.

Comments on the Yggy vs the Pontus from a friend:
  • The Pontus communicates more tonal color. The Pontus is better at presenting all parts of the music with balance. The Pontus also presents with more reverb.
  • The Yggy is more emphatic in how it conveys pace. The Pontus seems more realistic in its pace.
  • The Pontus sounds more relaxed and laid back in its presentation.
 
Jul 4, 2022 at 3:07 PM Post #1,085 of 1,800
Raw listening notes of the dcs Bartok vs Pontus
Note: The dcs Bartok was the first of the next price level of DACs that I'm exploring to see what I might get if I spend more on my digital front end (or, on a better turntable).

Imaging was super solid. It conveyed primary components of music with a sense of substance. Resolution of tonal quality and timbre was fantastic. It really delivers the tone and substance of voices and acoustic instruments in a very convincing fashion.

In terms of how it presents music, the dcs Bartok is more like the Qutest than the Pontus. It emphasizes the primary components of music, while the Pontus has a more balanced presentation of the components of music. When listening to jazz, the Pontus seems to be actually better at resolving interactions in music with complex rhythms. As a result, the dcs Bartok seemed to be less good than the Pontus at conveying Pace, Rhythm and Timing. The sound from the dcs Bartok seemed to feel less playful and agile than that from the Pontus

Compared to the Pontus, the dcs Bartok is perhaps the better "audiophile" product, but the Pontus has a sense of natural engagement and flow that perhaps even the Bartok is surprisingly unable to match.
 
Jul 4, 2022 at 3:12 PM Post #1,086 of 1,800
@Smoothstereo If you do get a Pontus DAC, there's plenty that I can share about what else I've done to make it sound even better. FWIW, switching from a $135 Shunyata Venom V14 power cord to a $91 Supra LoRad power cord was more of an audible improvement to the sound of the Pontus II DACthan there was difference between the Pontus & the dcs Bartok. Surprisingly, the $91 Supra LoRad power cord even sounds better than a $499 Shunyata Venom V10 NR power cord (currently being loaned to me by a friend)

What i heard when substituting a Supra LoRad power cord for the Shunyata Venom V14. (Yes, I've also used a $14 Tripp-Lite Heavy Duty power cord on the Pontus which was decent and provided about 75% of the overall sound quality of the Shunyata Venom V14)

  • The background behind the music is quieter
  • Better separation and placement of instruments and voices
  • Better resolution of low-level detail
  • Rhythms in music are easier to follow
  • More sense of ease to music that is intended to be calm in nature
 
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Jul 4, 2022 at 4:51 PM Post #1,087 of 1,800
@Smoothstereo If you do get a Pontus DAC, there's plenty that I can share about what else I've done to make it sound even better. FWIW, switching from a $135 Shunyata Venom V14 power cord to a $91 Supra LoRad power cord was more of an audible improvement to the sound of the Pontus II DACthan there was difference between the Pontus & the dcs Bartok. Surprisingly, the $91 Supra LoRad power cord even sounds better than a $499 Shunyata Venom V10 NR power cord (currently being loaned to me by a friend)

What i heard when substituting a Supra LoRad power cord for the Shunyata Venom V14. (Yes, I've also used a $14 Tripp-Lite Heavy Duty power cord on the Pontus which was decent and provided about 75% of the overall sound quality of the Shunyata Venom V14)

  • The background behind the music is quieter
  • Better separation and placement of instruments and voices
  • Better resolution of low-level detail
  • Rhythms in music are easier to follow
  • More sense of ease to music that is intended to be calm in nature
Thanks for the detailed write up. I think you might have convinced me on getting one, haha. I see from your signature, you are connecting the Pontus 2 via USB, what is your source to streamer and what music file type/quality are you using ?
 
Jul 4, 2022 at 7:50 PM Post #1,089 of 1,800
@Smoothstereo If you do get a Pontus DAC, there's plenty that I can share about what else I've done to make it sound even better. FWIW, switching from a $135 Shunyata Venom V14 power cord to a $91 Supra LoRad power cord was more of an audible improvement to the sound of the Pontus II DACthan there was difference between the Pontus & the dcs Bartok. Surprisingly, the $91 Supra LoRad power cord even sounds better than a $499 Shunyata Venom V10 NR power cord (currently being loaned to me by a friend)

What i heard when substituting a Supra LoRad power cord for the Shunyata Venom V14. (Yes, I've also used a $14 Tripp-Lite Heavy Duty power cord on the Pontus which was decent and provided about 75% of the overall sound quality of the Shunyata Venom V14)

  • The background behind the music is quieter
  • Better separation and placement of instruments and voices
  • Better resolution of low-level detail
  • Rhythms in music are easier to follow
  • More sense of ease to music that is intended to be calm in nature
HA! Bit off topic but I just purchased a Nordost Odin gen 2 power cable clone for $116...supposed to be 90% as good as $1,000 cables...but needs long time to burn in....

 
Jul 4, 2022 at 10:58 PM Post #1,090 of 1,800
Thanks for the detailed write up. I think you might have convinced me on getting one, haha. I see from your signature, you are connecting the Pontus 2 via USB, what is your source to streamer and what music file type/quality are you using ?
I highly suggest getting a dedicated streamer. I tried an iPhone and a PC laptop initially with a Denafrips Ares II DAC and the sound quality improvement with a Project Stream Box S2 Ultra was quite big.

I suggest turning off the WiFi on the Project streamer and using either an Ethernet connection or use a WiFi extender to create an Ethernet access port. THAT was a huge improvement in the sound of the streamer. Switching from an AmazonBasics Cat6 Ethernet cable to a Supra Cat8 Ethernet cable yielded about 75% of the improvement realized by turning off WiFi on the streamer.

Local files sound better than streaming. That seems to have more impact on sound quality than file resolution. Of the streaming services, Qobuz sounds best then Spotify Premium. Yes, better than Tidal and Amazon HiRes

A relatively inexpensive $91 Supra LoRad power cord works wonders with the Pontus and sounds better to me than a $15 Tripp-Lite Heavy Duty power cord, a $135 Shunyata Venom V14 cord, a $500 Synergistic Research UEF Blue power cord and a $500 Shunyata Venom V10 NR power cord.

A $200 Stordiau Lush USB cable sounded great from the Project streamer to the Pontus. I've not tried any other type of connection.

An Audioquest Jitterbug noise filter on the USB output of the Project improved sound quality.
 
Jul 4, 2022 at 11:50 PM Post #1,091 of 1,800
Has anyone had a chance to compare the Pontus 2 to the latest Schiit Gungnir Multibit with Unison usb? The Gungnir Multibit (Gumby) is also on my short list.
 
Jul 5, 2022 at 7:16 AM Post #1,092 of 1,800

Thanks for posting the link to that review. I've been trying to find more detailed information on the differences between the Ares II and Pontus II so this was quite helpful. I'd be curious to hear your findings between the two as well is you're able to?

A relatively inexpensive $91 Supra LoRad power cord works wonders with the Pontus and sounds better to me than a $15 Tripp-Lite Heavy Duty power cord, a $135 Shunyata Venom V14 cord, a $500 Synergistic Research UEF Blue power cord and a $500 Shunyata Venom V10 NR power cord.

Did you try the Supra LoRad on the Ares II?
 
Jul 5, 2022 at 12:58 PM Post #1,093 of 1,800
Thanks for posting the link to that review. I've been trying to find more detailed information on the differences between the Ares II and Pontus II so this was quite helpful. I'd be curious to hear your findings between the two as well is you're able to?
The Ares II was nice overall. Best way to describe it would be 'pleasant' It was decently smooth in sound, but I did notice some listening fatigue after listening for more than say 90 minutes. That was with a Shunyata Venom V14 power cord. That listening fatigue seemed to be resolved by switching out the Shunyata Venom power cable for a Synergistic Research UEF Blue power cable. (which unfortunately costs almost as much as the Ares DAC)

The key shortcoming of the Ares II DAC was that though I enjoyed music that I liked already, it wasn't particularly engaging on music that I didn't already like. I would attribute that to the Ares providing less resolution of detail. In my decision to try out the Pontus, my objective was to get 90% of resolution that a Qutest provides with more of the warmth that I heard in the Denafrips Ares II.

The move from the Ares to the Pontus is a BIG step up in all dimensions of sound quality.

It's much warmer and fuller in sound.
It's more resolving of detail and actually seems to convey more detail than the Qutest.
It's smoother in sound.
It conveys presence, air, and spatial cues that the Ares just doesn't have.

This review also provides a good comparison that I found to be very much in line with what I found.

https://www.hifi-advice.com/blog/re...es-ii-pontus-ii-venus-ii-and-terminator-plus/


Did you try the Supra LoRad on the Ares II?
Nope, just got it last Friday
 
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Jul 5, 2022 at 2:25 PM Post #1,094 of 1,800
The Ares II was nice overall. Best way to describe it would be 'pleasant' It was decently smooth in sound, but I did notice some listening fatigue after listening for more than say 90 minutes. That was with a Shunyata Venom power cable. That listening fatigue seemed to be resolved by switching out the Shunyata Venom power cable for a Synergistic Research UEF Blue power cable. (which unfortunately costs almost as much as the Ares DAC)

The key shortcoming of the Ares II DAC was that though I enjoyed music that I liked already, it wasn't particularly engaging on music that I didn't already like. I would attribute that to the Ares providing less resolution of detail. In my decision to try out the Pontus, my objective was to get 90% of resolution that a Qutest provides with more of the warmth that I heard in the Denafrips Ares II.

The move from the Ares to the Pontus is a BIG step up in all dimensions of sound quality.

It's much warmer and fuller in sound.
It's more resolving of detail and actually seems to convey more detail than the Qutest.
It's smoother in sound.
It conveys presence, air, and spatial cues that the Ares just doesn't have.

This review also provides a good comparison that I found to be very much in line with what I found.

https://www.hifi-advice.com/blog/re...es-ii-pontus-ii-venus-ii-and-terminator-plus/



Nope, just got it last Friday
Thanks for this! I did get to hear a Pontus II very briefly but it was in a speaker system that I was unfamiliar with but it sounded very nice. Based on your post and the review you linked it sounds like the Pontus II may very well be the upgrade I'm looking for and may well be the sweet spot for an end-game DAC.
 
Jul 6, 2022 at 12:47 PM Post #1,095 of 1,800
@Smoothstereo If you do get a Pontus DAC, there's plenty that I can share about what else I've done to make it sound even better. FWIW, switching from a $135 Shunyata Venom V14 power cord to a $91 Supra LoRad power cord was more of an audible improvement to the sound of the Pontus II DACthan there was difference between the Pontus & the dcs Bartok. Surprisingly, the $91 Supra LoRad power cord even sounds better than a $499 Shunyata Venom V10 NR power cord (currently being loaned to me by a friend)

What i heard when substituting a Supra LoRad power cord for the Shunyata Venom V14. (Yes, I've also used a $14 Tripp-Lite Heavy Duty power cord on the Pontus which was decent and provided about 75% of the overall sound quality of the Shunyata Venom V14)

  • The background behind the music is quieter
  • Better separation and placement of instruments and voices
  • Better resolution of low-level detail
  • Rhythms in music are easier to follow
  • More sense of ease to music that is intended to be calm in nature
Thank you for your detailed notes. I‘m currently trying a Shunyata Venom V14 with my new Pontus and so far enjoying it. But I’ll give the Supra a go too, given the 30 day return policy. Curious whether you are listening in NOS or OS?
 

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