[Smoothstereo]

I agree, its best to find the source of this popping noise than to spend money on another dac. Chances are it might be a simple and inexpensive fix.

Perhaps also look if you have the newest firmware for the Pontus2.

 

[GoldenSound]

Hello,
I have a bit of a weird question - if you had to name it, which DAC in the sub 2K price gap would you say compares to the Pontus II?

I tried going through the whole thread, but I'll admit I got lost somewhere along the way... So, my story is this:

I got an Ares II about a month ago, heard those strange pops and clicks now and then and upgraded to the Pontus, hoping they would disappear. However they didn't entirely and now I'm kinda torn, cause the DAC sounds positively magnificent, running circles around all other DACs I've had, but still produces those minute sound imperfections that I am afraid might become a problem in the long run. So I thought about a similarly priced alternative that would at least get close to the Pontus.
Now, I know this is a Denafrips thread and my question is not exactly right, but I am using the Pontus as a reference point in my search. Is there such a beast that rivals, albeit without surpassing, the Pontus II without costing significantly more?

I have zero option to audition any other device, unfortunately, and I'm pressed about making a decision regarding the DAC soon, so any help or advice/opinion would be greatly appreciated. Thanks!

These pops and clicks are due to the fact that on Denafrips DACs, intersample overs are incorrectly handled and wrap around to the opposite polarity, creating large transients.
Sine wave with +1dB intersample overs from Pontus 2 12th Anniversary:

CTRL+F and search for 'intersample overs' here: https://goldensound.audio/2023/01/08/denafrips-pontus-2-12th-anniversary-edition-measurements/
Hopefully it is something Denafrips can fix with a firmware update as it is a software issue but at the moment it's an issue that has been affecting them for a while.

Temporary solution would be to add -3.5dB DSP volume headroom via your player until it is fixed, this will prevent intersample overs

 

[Lubak]

Your problem isn't with the DAC. It's either your source or the cable(s) you have connected to the DAC. Can you describe your chain from beginning to end, please?

Hi, yes, I kinda figured that, since all the Denafrips dacs had the same issue (I actually tried 2 different Ares II units before the Pontus). The thing is all my other DACs, mediocre as they are, never exhibited anything similar in the exact same chain. My chain is an Audiolab 6000CDT as source, both coaxial and optical connections to the Pontus exhibit the same problem, and amp is an SPL Phonitor SE. I tried all kinds of changes, of power cable, RCA connection (although mine are pretty decent), I even moved the unit to a different room to try and eliminate any interference from other items plugged in the electrical grid. All to no effect. And although I agree it could be a fixable issue on my end, the fact that I can't isolate it and that it doesn't occur with other DAC brands tested leaves me frustrated and kinda helpless. At the Pontus price point I feel the user experience in just enjoying the music should be much more easily achievable.

These pops and clicks are due to the fact that on Denafrips DACs, intersample overs are incorrectly handled and wrap around to the opposite polarity, creating large transients.
Sine wave with +1dB intersample overs from Pontus 2 12th Anniversary:

CTRL+F and search for 'intersample overs' here: https://goldensound.audio/2023/01/08/denafrips-pontus-2-12th-anniversary-edition-measurements/
Hopefully it is something Denafrips can fix with a firmware update as it is a software issue but at the moment it's an issue that has been affecting them for a while.

Temporary solution would be to add -3.5dB DSP volume headroom via your player until it is fixed, this will prevent intersample overs

Thank you for replying to my question! I did check your review in detail (and actually asked Vinshine Audio about the problem you described). However as far as I could understand, the phenomenon you're describing occurs as a result of the dynamic range of the recording, i.e. it happens at a specific point in the playback and it should be repeatable, right? Mine unfortunately appears to be a different issue as it happens absolutely randomly and is not repeatable - it has never happened at the same point on a recording. It sounds like a click or pop not too dissimilar to that heard sometimes during vinyl playback (sorry, that's really the best way I could describe it). Anyways...

Thanks!

 

[ColSaulTigh]

Try hooking up a laptop and connecting via USB and see if that helps. Sounds like you might need a DDC. I have the Denafrips Iris and it works great.

 

[sajunky]

Temporary solution would be to add -3.5dB DSP volume headroom via your player until it is fixed, this will prevent intersample overs

Or switch to NOS mode. In NOS mode there is no intersample overs.

Frirmware bug like this give the best opportunity to test Denafrips for a pure NOS.

Note that user reported the same cracking problem with Ares II, so problem is not with a DAC.

My chain is an Audiolab 6000CDT as source, both coaxial and optical connections to the Pontus exhibit the same problem, and amp is an SPL Phonitor SE. I tried all kinds of changes, of power cable, RCA connection (although mine are pretty decent), I even moved the unit to a different room to try and eliminate any interference from other items plugged in the electrical grid.

Do you have all HiFi components plugged to the same power extension? I wouldn't move DAC to a different room (even for testing purpose) for a risk of damaging receiver, unless on the optical connection. If you use power filtering devices, there is a common mistake of not obeying one rule. All devices must be plugged to the output this filter.

 

[Lubak]

Try hooking up a laptop and connecting via USB and see if that helps. Sounds like you might need a DDC. I have the Denafrips Iris and it works great.

Isn't the DDC Iris for USB connection only? I would try it if I thought it would help with the coax input, but I don't want to change my whole system (and musical experience), i.e. to switch from physical media to streaming.

I have collected and continue to collect CDs for years and I really enjoy that aspect of the hi-fi hobby. I'm not willing to give up that experience (and a collection I've built for years) in order to accommodate Denafrips' imperfections.

 

[ColSaulTigh]

Isn't the DDC Iris for USB connection only? I would try it if I thought it would help with the coax input, but I don't want to change my whole system (and musical experience), i.e. to switch from physical media to streaming.

I have collected and continue to collect CDs for years and I really enjoy that aspect of the hi-fi hobby. I'm not willing to give up that experience (and a collection I've built for years) in order to accommodate Denafrips' imperfections.

Yes, it is, but I don't think you're dealing with a Denafrips DAC issue. The purpose of using a DDC is to clean up any jitter that might be creating the timing issue for the DAC, thus causing the ticking issue. Do you have any other CD players you can connect? Even an old Blu-Ray player just for the purposes of testing? I find the characteristic of the problem moving from DAC to DAC while other components in the chain remain static to be indicative of the issue residing outside the DAC. To generalize this as a "Denafrips imperfection" without eliminating all other possible causes is a bit short-sighted, IMO.

 

[Lubak]

Or switch to NOS mode. In NOS mode there is no intersample overs.

Frirmware bug like this give the best opportunity to test Denafrips for a pure NOS.

Note that user reported the same cracking problem with Ares II, so problem is not with a DAC.


Do you have all HiFi components plugged to the same power extension? I wouldn't move DAC to a different room (even for testing purpose) for a risk of damaging receiver, unless on the optical connection. If you use power filtering devices, there is a common mistake of not obeying one rule. All devices must be plugged to the output this filter.

1. That thing you wrote about the NOS mode - is it applicable to Pontus II (not 12th) ? I think Goldensound had made that point about the Ares not being true NOS and I was under the impression that until iteration 12th the Pontus was the same, I mean not true NOS. Do you think the improvements on the Pontus 12th version could possibly affect what I'm describing?

2. The different components are plugged into 2 power extensions. I tried plugging the Pontus alone directly in the outlet on the wall, same result. I do not use power filtering devices.
When I said I moved the DAC, I meant together with the cd transport and the amp so the connection between the components didn't suffer.

Yes, it is, but I don't think you're dealing with a Denafrips DAC issue. The purpose of using a DDC is to clean up any jitter that might be creating the timing issue for the DAC, thus causing the ticking issue. Do you have any other CD players you can connect? Even an old Blu-Ray player just for the purposes of testing? I find the characteristic of the problem moving from DAC to DAC while other components in the chain remain static to be indicative of the issue residing outside the DAC. To generalize this as a "Denafrips imperfection" without eliminating all other possible causes is a bit short-sighted, IMO.

I agree with you entirely that the problem should lie outside the DAC. It could be its reaction to the electeical environment or some component(s) in my chain. But as long as I cannot locate it and subsequently resolve it, I am completely lost. And I wrote "Denafrips imperfections", because it is the only variable - logically although there may be nothing wrong with the DAC per se, its inability to perform as it should under the same circumstances as a Topping can, means it is the problem.
But please do not misunderstand me, I in no way mean to say that it is not a superb device - it is and hearing it was an absolutely jaw-dropping experience. In that sense I am truly disheartened by my inability (or incompetence) to resolve the issue.

 

[GoldenSound]

That thing you wrote about the NOS mode - is it applicable to Pontus II (not 12th) ? I think Goldensound had made that point about the Ares not being true NOS and I was under the impression that until iteration 12th the Pontus was the same, I mean not true NOS. Do you think the improvements on the Pontus 12th version could possibly affect what I'm describing?

Still applicable here regardless of true NOS.
Any zero order hold, linear interpolation, and in fact I think some gaussian/spline interpolation methods won't produce intersample overs. But you get treble rolloff so it's not a solution that is ideal for all

 

[Smoothstereo]

Hi, yes, I kinda figured that, since all the Denafrips dacs had the same issue (I actually tried 2 different Ares II units before the Pontus). The thing is all my other DACs, mediocre as they are, never exhibited anything similar in the exact same chain. My chain is an Audiolab 6000CDT as source, both coaxial and optical connections to the Pontus exhibit the same problem, and amp is an SPL Phonitor SE. I tried all kinds of changes, of power cable, RCA connection (although mine are pretty decent), I even moved the unit to a different room to try and eliminate any interference from other items plugged in the electrical grid. All to no effect. And although I agree it could be a fixable issue on my end, the fact that I can't isolate it and that it doesn't occur with other DAC brands tested leaves me frustrated and kinda helpless. At the Pontus price point I feel the user experience in just enjoying the music should be much more easily achievable.


Thank you for replying to my question! I did check your review in detail (and actually asked Vinshine Audio about the problem you described). However as far as I could understand, the phenomenon you're describing occurs as a result of the dynamic range of the recording, i.e. it happens at a specific point in the playback and it should be repeatable, right? Mine unfortunately appears to be a different issue as it happens absolutely randomly and is not repeatable - it has never happened at the same point on a recording. It sounds like a click or pop not too dissimilar to that heard sometimes during vinyl playback (sorry, that's really the best way I could describe it). Anyways...

Thanks!

I had a similar issue with what you are describing, like little ticks, clicks or pops (really sounds like vinyl as you said) that happens randomly on songs. But my situation is a bit different as it happened with another dac.

Let me explain. I use two dacs (Pontus 2 and Ifi Zen DAC v2) for my main headphone system. So my system is constant, I switch between dacs depending on mood. Both dacs are fed by an Android phone Samsung S7 edge using USB Audio Player Pro (UAPP). I upsample my wav files which are 44.1khz to 352.8khz with UAPP. Pontus2 plays songs without issue. But my Zen Dac v2 has the little ticks, clicks, or pops randomly. At first I thought maybe the Zen Dac v2 was not able to consistently playback higher 352.8khz resolution files even though it is marketed that it could.My workaround was to play the song again and it would be fine.

But one day I was looking at the settings on UAPP called Buffer Size. It was set default at 200 milliseconds. So I tried lowering it to 100 milliseconds and voila, no more little random ticks, clicks, or pops. The good thing is this new setting didn't adversely affect the Pontus2 playback. I was also happy that it wasn't the fault of the Zen Dac v2.

I think your issue might be your source player not playing nice or being optimized with the Pontus2.

 

[Smoothstereo]

Another thing is, what firmware are you on with the Pontus2? If you are using the newest firmware, maybe try going back to the previous versions that might be more stable with certain types of players. Or if you are on an older one, update it to the newer versions.

I am on V3.12 , not the latest, but very stable for my use case.

 

[sajunky]

1. That thing you wrote about the NOS mode - is it applicable to Pontus II (not 12th) ? I think Goldensound had made that point about the Ares not being true NOS and I was under the impression that until iteration 12th the Pontus was the same, I mean not true NOS. Do you think the improvements on the Pontus 12th version could possibly affect what I'm describing?

If you have Pontus II, then you don't need to worry about, as there is no bug. If you have Pontus 12th, then a bug affects only some recording that create intersample overs during oversampling and when it happens firmware behaves really, really strange. There are two ways to avoid this as described above.

However as you commented previously, distortions would only happen (repeatively) in a strictly defined time. You responded correctly that in your case distortions are happening random. On other words it is not your case, distracting from main problem.

I am really struggling with further advice, there are devices reclocking S/PDIF, i.e. if you have Topping D10s you can plug it between (assuming it has S/PDIF input) and see whether Pontus works well with this signal. There are converters from S/PDIF to I2S or number of DDCs, but spending more in this situation before establishing a cause is not justified.

 

[GoldenSound]

If you have Pontus II, then you don't need to worry about, as there is no bug. If you have Pontus 12th, then a bug affects only some recording that create intersample overs during oversampling and when it happens firmware behaves really, really strange. There are two ways to avoid this as described above.

It may occur in the original Pontus 2 as well.
It definitely occurred in the original Ares 2

 

[iFi audio]

Let me explain. I use two dacs (Pontus 2 and Ifi Zen DAC v2) for my main headphone system. So my system is constant, I switch between dacs depending on mood.

If I may ask, which one of these two devices gets more of your time ?

 

[kingoftown1]

If I may ask, which one of these two devices gets more of your time ?

bad ifi audio. you're grounded, go to your room.