[DrewVz]

Can anyone provide a comparison of the Pontus 2 vs. Yggdrasil (I have the OG A2/Unison)?

Just curious. I've got both and I've been comparing them directly against each other for a few days. I'm interested to hear what others are hearing from both of these DACs.

 

[jester115]

Can anyone provide a comparison of the Pontus 2 vs. Yggdrasil?

Just curious. I've got both and I've been comparing them directly against each other for a few days. I'm interested to hear what others are hearing from both of these DACs.

Which Yggy do you have? I’m curious about peoples’ opinions on these two as well, specifically the LIM vs Pontus II without a DDC.

 

[DrewVz]

Added detail to the post above.

 

[CalvinandHobbes2020]

Some feedback from a friend on the Yggy (pre-upgrade to the 'less is more' version) versus the Pontus II (mine that he borrowed to hear in his system)

The Pontus II conveys more tonal color and has more nuance in how details and musical flow is conveyed. It has a unique ability to play "slow" or "fast" depending on what music is being played.

The Yggy has a more insistent sense of pace, but less refined in how it conveys tonal color.

Pontus is the better choice for voices and acoustic instruments. Yggy has characteristics that could be better for rock music though the Pontus works well also, but in a different way.

I've heard his Yggy (after upgrade to the 'less is more' version through an Audible Illusions tube preamp and a Pass power amp and it sounds very nice. The sound quality from both are quite nice so the differences are more along the lines of sound signature rather than one being necessarily better than another.

 

[CalvinandHobbes2020]

Listening to a string bass being plucked right now via the Pontus along with a piano on Sting's 'I Miss You Kate' track. It strikes me as to how realistic the tone of both instruments sound as well as how beautiful that tonal quality is.

 

[DrewVz]

Regarding the Pontus II, let me just say that the noise floor is so low that I can hear myself breathing during soft passages. Oh, and my heartbeat is distracting as well. This DAC is insane. Honestly I can't even imagine what the Terminator sounds like. The Pontus II is just so incredibly resolving and detailed, while still being very much on the warm side of tonality. Very rich and full-bodied, with deep, textured bass, it delivers an accurate sound stage and pinpoint imaging. The only thing missing is the "air" that comes with some added treble extension. But the flip side is that the extended treble also brings a sense of haze to the music that the Pontus II refrains from delivering. The highs are crisp and clear, but with other DACs I can hear that slight mid-upper treble haze/sustain that brings a sense of air to the music. The Pontus II doesn't have that. It's much more warm, liquid, organic, and full-bodied. Frankly, I prefer its sound more than the airiness of some other $2k+ DACs, because the "air" tends to diffuse the sound, which reduces the accuracy and distorts the tonality. The Pontus II allows you to see deep into the music and hear every detail, without any added resonances or haze added for "atmosphere". I'm really, really enjoying this DAC. It could easily be an endgame component for folks who aren't looking to spend an arm and a leg on a system. I know I'm a bit late to the game here, but Denafrips really seems to have cornered the market on high end DACs with a reasonable price tag. Well done.

 

[Powermankw]

My only problem is my Matrix Audio Mini-i 3 Pro sounds exactly the same. I can't tell any difference, in any way, playing anything. The best I can come up with is maybe, big maybe, Pontus is a bit more open and the matrix is more 2D... On some things. But it is a roon ready streamer at half the price. It's weird. The amp section is not much to shout about, but the DAC is really good. Strange game this is.

 

[haasaaroni]

Regarding the Pontus II, let me just say that the noise floor is so low that I can hear myself breathing during soft passages. Oh, and my heartbeat is distracting as well. This DAC is insane. Honestly I can't even imagine what the Terminator sounds like. The Pontus II is just so incredibly resolving and detailed, while still being very much on the warm side of tonality. Very rich and full-bodied, with deep, textured bass, it delivers an accurate sound stage and pinpoint imaging. The only thing missing is the "air" that comes with some added treble extension. But the flip side is that the extended treble also brings a sense of haze to the music that the Pontus II refrains from delivering. The highs are crisp and clear, but with other DACs I can hear that slight mid-upper treble haze/sustain that brings a sense of air to the music. The Pontus II doesn't have that. It's much more warm, liquid, organic, and full-bodied. Frankly, I prefer its sound more than the airiness of some other $2k+ DACs, because the "air" tends to diffuse the sound, which reduces the accuracy and distorts the tonality. The Pontus II allows you to see deep into the music and hear every detail, without any added resonances or haze added for "atmosphere". I'm really, really enjoying this DAC. It could easily be an endgame component for folks who aren't looking to spend an arm and a leg on a system. I know I'm a bit late to the game here, but Denafrips really seems to have cornered the market on high end DACs with a reasonable price tag. Well done.

You’re making me want to buy one again with this post lol

 

[McPh1st0]

A question: does the use of a DDC (I2S connection) with it's superior clocks (compared to Pontus II) make sence when Denafrips states (on their Pontus website) that "All (!) digital input are FIFO buffered and reclocked by the on board FEMTO clocks"? Also in the picture (DSP board) on the same website can be seen "Adaptive FIFO Buffer Recklocking via the on board FEMTO Clocks to the USB input signal (!!) )". It seems like there is a contradiction (reclocking all digital input vs USB input only) as i understand it. This confuses me a bit...
The Iris reclocks the signal with it's better clocks, then sends it via I2S to the Pontus where the signal is buffered and reclocked again with inferior clocks (compared to Iris)? Does it make sence? Is ALL digital input getting reclocked (like it's mentioned in the text-part of the Pontus description) or JUST the asychronus USB input (as described in the picture)? Or does the signal from I2S bypass the Pontus FPGA board?
Any input from more knowledgeable people than me is appreciated...

 

[simon740]

My only problem is my Matrix Audio Mini-i 3 Pro sounds exactly the same. I can't tell any difference, in any way, playing anything. The best I can come up with is maybe, big maybe, Pontus is a bit more open and the matrix is more 2D... On some things. But it is a roon ready streamer at half the price. It's weird. The amp section is not much to shout about, but the DAC is really good. Strange game this is.

Maybe this is to your advantage. Some do not hear the difference between the € 100 DAC and the € 5,000 DAC.
In my speaker system, the difference between Topping D30 and Denafrips Ares II is enormous. Unable to listen to D30. Everything sounds "wrong".
With Ares II - pure enjoyment.

regards,
Simon

 

[DrewVz]

You’re making me want to buy one again with this post lol

I wouldn't spend too much time second guessing yourself. If you didn't like the sound signature before, you probably still won't like it. System synergy is important too. Maybe your components aren't a good match for the DAC?

For me, I've been using the Yggy in my system for a while and I thought it was the most amazing DAC I've heard for it's price. Super detailed, clean bass, great overall FR balance, and a broad sphere of a soundstage.

But then after burning my ears in with the Pontus for several days, I got accustomed to the new level of details and warmth that it delivers. The Yggy has much more air underneath the music, but the clarity and imaging suffers. Losing the air/haze but gaining clarity is a tradeoff that I personally am happy to make, because I feel the new sound I'm hearing or of the Pontus is just at a higher level, plain and simple. For a $1700 DAC to be audibly superior to a $2500 DAC (to my ears) is quite an accomplishment. The musical presentation coming from the Pontus is "effortless". Since every note is clearly distinguishable, it sounds like the music is being presented in slow motion. It's hard to describe. My ears aren't straining to pick out the texture anymore, so it seems like there's less information coming across. But in reality, the haze is just gone, replaced with empty blackness in the background. Really good synergy with my gear.

 

[shwnwllms]

A question: does the use of a DDC (I2S connection) with it's superior clocks (compared to Pontus II) make sence when Denafrips states (on their Pontus website) that "All (!) digital input are FIFO buffered and reclocked by the on board FEMTO clocks"? Also in the picture (DSP board) on the same website can be seen "Adaptive FIFO Buffer Recklocking via the on board FEMTO Clocks to the USB input signal (!!) )". It seems like there is a contradiction (reclocking all digital input vs USB input only) as i understand it. This confuses me a bit...
The Iris reclocks the signal with it's better clocks, then sends it via I2S to the Pontus where the signal is buffered and reclocked again with inferior clocks (compared to Iris)? Does it make sence? Is ALL digital input getting reclocked (like it's mentioned in the text-part of the Pontus description) or JUST the asychronus USB input (as described in the picture)? Or does the signal from I2S bypass the Pontus FPGA board?
Any input from more knowledgeable people than me is appreciated...

My understanding is it depends on your source. I use HQPlayer to oversample so my source is an M1 Mac Mini, there is no doubt adding an Iris to my chain made an improvement. If you are already using a streamer and don’t have a noisy computer to deal with then the improvement will be exponentially less since you aren’t having to isolate EMI. There is some gain in feeding your DAC a cleaner reclocked signal, even if the DAC has great USB implementation (isolation and clock) it will benefit since it won’t have to do so much heavy lifting on its own.

 

[McPh1st0]

This is not what i meant. If the Pontus (with it's inferior clocks) reclocks all incoming signal then the better clocks of the Iris are kinda redundant. There would be no need for the Iris (except for the "cleaner" signal and I2S conversion it provides). You know what i mean? This is what GoldenOne in his latest Terminator review on YouTube stated that the use of a DDC on a DAC that reclocks all incoming signal is to an extend of no use...
My question is if the Pontus reclocks ALL incoming signal or just the USB one....
Maybe Alvin can chime in...

 

[shwnwllms]

This is not what i meant. If the Pontus (with it's inferior clocks) reclocks all incoming signal then the better clocks of the Iris are kinda redundant. There would be no need for the Iris (except for the "cleaner" signal and I2S conversion it provides). You know what i mean? This is what GoldenOne in his latest Terminator review on YouTube stated that the use of a DDC on a DAC that reclocks all incoming signal is to an extend of no use...
My question is if the Pontus reclocks ALL incoming signal or just the USB one....
Maybe Alvin can chime in...

Alvin addresses that question here, but feel free to email him. Not sure he really monitors this thread.

Do Denafrips DACs need a DDC?
When Alvin Chee approached me to listen to the IRIS, the first question I asked myself was, “Isn’t this already built into the Pontus II, Venus II, Terminator, or Terminator-Plus?”

Here is his answer:

“The DDC components are meant to be paired with DENAFRIPS DACs and other DACs on the market. The DDC elements are not found in the Venus II/Terminator/Terminator-Plus.

It’s a very good question. I asked DENAFRIPS chief designer, Mr. Zhao, the same question when he planned to release the DDC. He agreed that the DAC’s USB input is already very good. However, due to the space constraint in the DAC, there is room for improvements that could not be implemented in the DAC. He designed the DDC to reclock and buffer the digital signal via its internal crystals (Temperature Compensated Crystal Oscillator TCXO for IRIS, OCXO for Hermes and Gaia). The process reduces the jitter to a negligible level. The cleansed digital signal will then output to the external DAC via coax/opt/aes/i2s effortlessly.”

https://theaudiobeatnik.com/review-denafrips-iris-ddc-digital-to-digital-converter/

 

[centuriones]

Alvin addresses that question here, but feel free to email him. Not sure he really monitors this thread.



https://theaudiobeatnik.com/review-denafrips-iris-ddc-digital-to-digital-converter/

I can confirm that the combination Pontus II + DDC (now I use Hermes) in I2S is exceptional