[John Reeves]

Hi,

If you are going to spend a lot on a computer purely for music, then you can go a step further without increasing the price and put together a full multimedia centre. By this I mean making a PVR as well as just for playing music. I'm currently messing around, putting together a computer for this purpose, using an XP 2800 and 512mb RAM.

The only need to have a fast CPU and lots of memory is if you are using software MPEG 2 coding so you can reduce video space and burn to DVD. Some TV cards have a chip on them for hardware encoding, so eliminating this need..

The idea is to have a sort of TIVO which is also hooked to your sound system to play back movies and music, say using FLAC to save disk space.

There are various remote control options available, so you won't need to move from your chair and can select music tracks from say foobar from the TV screen.

There are various articles on the web discussing this.

Of course, rather than using aremote, you can always use a remote keyboard/mouse but this is not user friendly for the rest of the family.

Some TV software, i.e. Sage TV, lets you start the program automaticaly on Boot Up, although you can mess around and start any program up in Windows.

My main problem is deciding on the case to blend in with my particular domestic set up. I'm gonna put everything together using a midi-tower I already have, and if everything works out OK, then I'll get a more suitable case etc.

Advantages are:

1. All your music available without putting CD's in and out. Cuts out using a CD player.

2. Good sound quality using an EMU.

3. Surround sound using an Audigy if required.

4. Eliminates the need for a seperate DVD Recorder/player.

5. You can get a TV Card that will work for direct satellite signals (Not Sky), broadcast TV or cable.

Just a few thoughts about the possibilities now becoming available. Hope this is of interest.

Regards

John

 

[Edwood]

That's high end?

C'mon. You can do better.
Case:

Atech Fabrication HeatSync Case


Motherboard:

Asus A8V Deluxe


CPU:

AMD Athlon 64 4000+ or Athlon 64 FX55, take your pic. Buy lower speeds if you don't need it.

That's a good start.

-Ed

 

[Edwood]

Quote:

Originally Posted by S_Dedalus I'd recommend a pentium M. It's cheaper than the opteron EE, but better performing, and runs just as cool. It can be had for $209.

Good luck getting a motherboard.

Oh, and there is that pesky 4x AGP limit.........

You can get a 2GHz Pentium M 755 Dothan for a measly $429.00 too.

-Ed

 

[davediggz]

Man thats a pretty cool case EdWood. Although I would need to look at how they arranged the set up inside of the case. Some of their other cases seem to have the harddrives right in front of the PSU.

Anyways, if he wants to build a music server, does a dual cpu system come to mind? Maybe thats too highend/overkill. Or maybe it would depend on how many user he will have on the server simultaneously.

 

[davediggz]

O i know! the Voodoo RAGE F-50 system is totally fanless and only starts at a mere $4,000

http://www.voodoopc.com/systems/f50.aspx

 

[llmobll]

Quote:

Originally Posted by davediggz O i know! the Voodoo RAGE F-50 system is totally fanless and only starts at a mere $4,000 http://www.voodoopc.com/systems/f50.aspx

Oh gawd i was waiting for someone to post that Zalman rip off case. Now this thread i just ridiculous.

 

[bangraman]

I think you know my suggestion, mbratrud (and why I consider what you're trying to do to be a waste of time*)... I for one would like to know how it sounds through a Burmeister DAC

*I may not have mentioned other peccadilloes like the lack of a remote control that would fully integrate with iTunes without annoying workarounds.

 

[tortie]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Iron_Dreamer CPU: AMD Athlon 64 3200+ DTR mobile Mobo: DFI Lan Party UT NF3 250GB Ram: PDP PC3200 1GB Hard drives: 3x Samsung 1614C PSU: Seasonic Super Silencer 400W All of the above from newegg All of the below from SVC.com Heatsink: Thermalright SLK948U Fans: 4x Panaflo L1A thermal past: arctic silver 5

I like iron dreamers set-up. I just got a computer for myself and if I had enough money, this is the set-up I would get. The DFI Lanparty board supports AMD 64's new Quiet 'n' cool feature which underclocks your CPU when it is in light load in order to minimize heat and fan noise. There are a few suggestions I would like to add though, for you to get a more quiet computer. While water cooling is the most quiet setup, the risk and hassle involved with it is just too much.

1. Change your case intake and exhaust fan with vantec stealth fans.
2. Get Thermaltake's Silenttower CPU heatsink for your CPU. In most reviews, it is considered the most quiet AMD heatsink/fan combo today while they consider its performance at par with the thermalright's. (I just ordered this for myself)
3. Change your video card's heatsink with a fanless videocard heatsink like Zalman's heatpipe. I assume you wont be playing 3D games with this comp, so a fanless video heatsink will be appropriate.
4. Use dampener kits for your fans and PSU.
5. Use a sound deadening kit for your case, something like deadpad.
6. Get a low-noise PSU. An example is Vantec's Stealth aluminum powersupply. This uses Vantec's lownoise fans and is temperature controlled that can be switched from automatic, medium or low.
7. Use Zalmans, heat pipe cooler for the harddisk. This unit lessens heat and noise from your harddisk.

Edit: Almost all of this can be bought from newegg.

Hope this helps

 

[DrewWinters]

A few suggestions here...

Decide exactly what you want first - I don't mean parts, I mean usage. Do you want JUST a file server for playing music? Do you want to be able to use it for anything else? May you want to use it for something else in the future?

For instance, if all you are doing - and all you will EVER do with it - is a jukebox, then an EPIA system is going to be the cheapest, quietest system.

But, it will be way too slow to do anything else with. If you want to use it in the future for other things, then there are several technologies you want to make sure to include, just for the sake of future-proofing. PCI-Ex, SATA and Athlon 64 are musts in this department - merely because in the future the current alternatives will be gone (yes, the Pentium is on it's way out - but we don't know what Intel will replace it with - so they are a dead end right now). Socket 939 will be around for several more years at least (my guess is that it will be around for 5 years.)

If you want the system to be powerful, then your best bet is the 90 nM Athlon 64 3000+ (S939). You can get it on Newegg for ~170. This runs cool with alot of power to spare. Underclock it and it'll run very cool. Later on, if you need more juice - just bring it back up to specs. But this is overkill for a music server, but worth it if you want to do other things. Consider only buying a single stick of RAM - and later added another if you need it for something else.

Totie is right: you want Cool N' Quiet. I have a A64 2800+ and my fan changes speed to match its usage (of course, even at full speed the fan is inaudible over my PSU). It's a great feature for quiet PC's.

Now I need to correct a couple of things: First, Aluminum ABSOLUTELY conducts heat better than steel. Whether or not this makes any difference in case temperatures is another topic (bottom line: not really).

Inversely, you are correct that aluminum is "noisier" (i.e. it has a lower internal damping than steel) but incorrect that an aluminum case is noiser because of that, for the same reason that aluminum doesn't really lower temperatures: case design and component selection are much more important.

Bottom line: the Lian Li 6070 is an excellent case, and is rather quiet. It's big brother the 73SL is even better - one of the best cases made - but would be rather overkill for a music server (unless you end up running more than 4 hard drives).

Concerning the Pentium-M, it is a good processor, but it is designed for laptops. For this reason, it has low memory bandwidth and is focused on thottling and whatnot to lower heat. So it may be a good choice for this system, since high memory bandwidth isn't a must, but it real life it will never be able to outperfrom an Athlon 64 on the whole (of course a dramatically overclocked one can beat a K8 on certain tests. Thats easy! But notice the test they chose: Doom 3 640x480 LQ. I bet a P4 could beat the FX at that test - but it's a worthless test. Furthermore, you are testing an overclocked processor to a stock processor. Tweaking the memory settings on an Athlon 64 can make more than a 10% difference, not even taking overclocking into account. The moral of this story: the P-M is a good CPU (in fact, the P4 replacement may well be based on it. which is ironic, since the P-M is based on the PIII!) but is not a serious desktop contender right now.

 

[ElChupahueso]

Ok, so after doing a bit of reading in this thread, and all the suggestions, I thought i'd throw out a few suggestions. I'm gonna quote heavily, and explain my choices as I go. Feel free to comment.

Quote:

Originally Posted by mbratrud So I am putting together a new computer exclusively to run iTunes and perform as a music server.

Ok, so if the SOLE purpose of this machine is to essentially act as a SILENT file server, as well as jukebox, there's a few things to consider. Lots of which has been discussed here, but IMHO the most important is that it doesn't need to be the $1200 Ferrari that you're suggesting. In fact, it doesn't even need to be cutting edge. Especially since running music isn't all that difficult if that's all it's going to do. Oh, all the links i'm including are to Newegg. Great place to get your stuff from, unless you REALLY want to go to the trouble of the Computer Fair. It's fun, and if you have the time, worth it. But if not, just go Newegg. Good prices, and great customer service.

Quote:

These are the specs I am considering...and then I have to find somebody to build it. ANYONE care to suggest where I might do better (particulary quieter)????:

Not to mention in the style dept.

Quote:

Case Lian Li Silver Aluminum Mid-Tower Model PC-6070A……Newegg $159 This is the Lian Li Quiet Tower

It depends on what you want the finished product to look like and where it'll be. If it's sitting with the rest of your components, then perhaps choosing a case that looks like it'll fit in might be a good choice. Like this one for $102.00
http://www.newegg.com/app/ViewProduc...119-044&depa=1
I think it looks cool, plus adding matting wouldn't be all that terribly difficult. I'd do a wee bit of modding to the case to improve airflow, but that's it. I'm a fan of the Cooler Master cases since in my experience, they're built really well, and are easy to work with. *shrugs* but it's really a personal call. If you have your heart set on a vertical case, then go with the Antec Sonata. But it is a bit more pricey.

Quote:

Power Supply ATX Zalman PSU 400W (ZM400B-APS) ….www.quietpcusa.com $100

Sure, either that or a PC Pro Power and Cooling Silencer Series of power supplies. They're not the Cadilac's of the computer power supply world for nothing. Check out the spec's on the 410ATX. http://www.pcpowercooling.com/produc...uiet/index.htm

Quote:

Motherboard Intel D925XCVLK … $195.00 Asus P5SDA Deluxe…$215 HELP IS NEEDED HERE

Zoiks those are pricy. Ok, if all you need is a box for acting as the jukebox/server, then there's two things i'd consider a good idea just to make life simpler(sp?). 1) Onboard video. 2) Onboard LAN. The video so you don't have to spend the cash on a card that's only going to show a desktop and the gui of a program or three. The Lan so if you choose, upload new music to it as opposed to ripping it on that box itself. Theoretically, you could just set the thing up on the network and just remote access it whenever you need it. Just an idea. I'd need summore thoughts from you on what your final objective is with this project. Anyhooz, after thinking about it, I thought that going the AMD route would probabaly be better on the pocketbook and it'd also be powerful enough to do whatever else you might want to do. So, I chose the Abit NF7-M mobo since it has the onboard LAN, onboard video and is made for the Athlon XP processors, which are pretty cheap right now. Plus i've had nothing but good luck with Abit mobo's, so i'm a little biased in that direction. But really anything with onboard video and LAN would work.
http://www.newegg.com/app/ViewProduc...127-150&depa=1

Quote:

CPU Intel Boxed (Prescott) Pentium 4 2.40AGHz/ 533MHZ/FSB 1 MB (BX80546PG2400E) 1024KB Cache Memory …Compuplus.com $124 / Replacement Zalman Fans…..$75 I AM GUESSING AS TO WHAT FAN MODS I MIGHT NEED

The presshott/northwood debate has already been brought u, so i won't repeat. But since I went with an AMD solution, here's a chip to match.
Athlon XP3000+ Barton Core 333MHz FSB w/ 512K cache, OEM. http://www.newegg.com/app/ViewProduc...103-380&depa=1 Can you choose a processor that packs less OOMPFH, sure. Only reason I went with this one was because of the FSB since it's what the mobo can support. I figure, make the most of what you got, no need to sell it short. Also, go with the OEM version, if you're not going to use the retail heatsink/fan combo, why pay for it? Ok, now as for cooling this sucker, i'd shy away from water cooling since you're not planning on overclocking it. Or are you? Anyways, for dead silent air cooling, stick with Zalman. Their stuff is great, and absolutely silent. Just make sure there's air running across the blades of the heatsink, and you'll be fine. This one will be perfect. http://www.newegg.com/app/ViewProduc...118-101&depa=0

Quote:

RAM 1 Gig

Not necessary. No audio application, either ripping or playing will ever use a full gig of RAM. 512 will sufficent. Now, as for RAM for this mobo, i'd say go with a pair of 256MB sticks of the PC3200, since it'll use it, and it's dual channel. Might as well make it faster while we're at it, right? http://www.newegg.com/app/ViewProduc...141-425&depa=1 Two of these bad boys, and you're good to go. Do you absolutely HAVE to use Kingston? Not at all, i've just had good luck with it, and it's not the most expensive out there either. Just good quality stuff.


Quote:

Hard Drives Seagate Barracuda 30GB/7200/2MB/ATA-100/EIDE …wwwtigerdirect.com $60 Seagate Barracuda 7200.7 - 7200 SATA 8MB Cache 8.5MS 3.5 inch …Securemart.com $129 Seagate Barracuda 7200.7 - 7200 SATA 8MB Cache 8.5MS 3.5 inch …Securemart.com $129 Note: Look into support for Native Command Queuing Raid 0 I will use the 30GB for the operating system and iTunes and the 2 x 200s for the music files (Lossless)

A couple of things to note, it's a good idea to stick your operating system as well as all programs on your fastest drive, not the slowest, and those drives with the 8MB of cache will read/write faster than the one with the 2 meg's only. Also, RAID will make more noise, plus it's unnecessary. So not knowing how much music you currently have, or will have in the future, i'm guessing that say, 400GB's will be enough? With that in mind, get a pair of these guys, and you'll be good to go. http://www.newegg.com/app/ViewProduc...148-032&depa=1 Again, if you don't need that much space, get one now, and another later when you fill it. But whatever. As has been said, just be sure to use rubber grommets so that the case doesn't vibrate with the drives. Oh, OEM bare drives again. Just get some rounded cables and you'll be just fine.

Quote:

CD Transport Plextor PX-721A 8 in 1 DVD+R/RW Drive, Model PX-712A …Newegg $99 IS THIS OVERKILL ?

Not at all. Plextor makes awesome drives and I whole heartedly support that choice. Just be sure to get a black one to match the case. Although the LG model that Iron Dreamer suggested is also a very good choice. If it's quieter, then by all means get it. Here's a link. http://www.newegg.com/app/ViewProduc...136-043&depa=1

Quote:

Approximate Budget: Case $159 PSU$100 Motherboard$215 CPU$124 Hard Drive$129 Hard Drive$129 Hard Drive$ 60 Replacement Fans$75 Plextor Writer$99 Operating System$90 Wiring$20 Parts Total$1200

New approx. budget
Case: 102.00
PSU: 85.00 (that's for the Silencer 410 ATX)
Mobo: 94.00
CPU: 128.00
CPU Fan: 28.99
RAM: (2X)39.25 = 78.50
Hard Drive(s): 112.00 (X2?) 224.00?
Burner: Plextor $99
LG $78
OS: ?? Not sure, what were you planning on?
Wiring: 20-30ish
Fans: 30ish probably less.

Prices subject to change and grand total could be more/less depending on choices made. At any rate, it's a thought. Plus it'd be $400 less which could be spent on cd's or one helluva night out. If you have any questions, i'll check this thread or just PM me.

Decay

DISCLAIMER: any mistypings/misspellings are probably due to the lack of sleep i've had and how i'm about to go to bed finally. In fact, i'm sure i've mistyped/misspelled something here to boot....

 

[Lynn]

"Now I need to correct a couple of things: First, Aluminum ABSOLUTELY conducts heat better than steel. Whether or not this makes any difference in case temperatures is another topic (bottom line: not really).

Inversely, you are correct that aluminum is "noisier" (i.e. it has a lower internal damping than steel) but incorrect that an aluminum case is noiser because of that, for the same reason that aluminum doesn't really lower temperatures: case design and component selection are much more important."

I am not sure what you are correcting, since you seem to agree that in the world of computer cases Aluminum does not make a difference, and you also agree that it has lower damping properties.

In terms of aluminum and cases, it seems manufactorers are making much thinner aluminum cases vs. steel, so whatever you gain in thermal transfer from aluminum is lost in less mass used (not to mention the issue of whether the components creating heat are coupled to the case so that the conductive properties actually make a difference).

 

[sethk]

The question of whether you need a higher speed processor is really up to the purchaser. Similarly, there may be some reason for picking the P4 over an A64.

I would recommend an Athlon64. Now that the new 90nm Athlon64s are available, with dual channel memory, high quality mobos, and at low cost as well (relatively speaking, for the 90nm 3000+) I would go that route.
I would suggest an Abit AV8 and a socket 939 Athlon64 3000+. Pick a faster CPU if you like.
Corsair Memory is very widely compatible, over engineered, comes with a lifetime warranty, and good customer service.

If you want a P4, up until you hit 3.4Ghz, the Northwood 'C' is faster than an equivalent Prescott. This has been discussed extensively on all the hardware sites. Below 3Ghz, it's a no brainer, get a Prescott if you must have intel. The best Northwood mobo is probably the Abit IC7-G.
Once again I'd pick some Corsair memory to go with this mobo.

Case choices have been discussed so I won't rehash, I suggest a case built for quietness, such as the Antec Sonata.

Good Luck with your PC!

 

[mbratrud]

LIMITATIONS:

I used a local computer builder to build my business computer. They are competent and give good service and support but they know nothing about music use AND they seem reluctant to go with parts I want but preferr parts that THEY want to use. Perhaps I will have to find someone else by mail or perhaps releasing them from warranty obligation will be enough.

BUT...I feel as if I might get in trouble if I am unable to specify EXACTLY what I want so I must make a list of ALL PARTS I will need and let them know where to find these parts.

This device will sit in a decorated room and how it looks may not be the ONLY concern (for a case) but it IS a concern and one I am willing to spend extra money to overcome.

USE:

I will ONLY use this as a music server and NO other purpose. I want to find a cool looking screen but it can be small and again, I will pay extra for style.

It is my intention to go USB out about 8 to 9 feet and into an M Transit card which will be heavily modified by Steve Nugent at Empirical Audio and it will include a superclock to relcock for jitter reduction.

I will have an AES/EBU cable hardwired to the output of the modified Transit and it will run into my $14,000 Burmester 001 CD player.

I want to use iTunes because I am obviously a computer idiot and after doing some readings I just do not feel comfortable configuring Foobar. Steve Nugent has indicated that the sound off iTunes (bypassing Kmixer) ripped losslessly are very near uncompressed WAV files and if his modified transit will support iTunes and bypass kmixer I am tempted to give it a try.

THE SYSTEM:

I am not really hindered by a budget....heck I thought the $1,200 in parts was cheap! I want quality and I would prefer not to spend money on stuff I am not going to use (like say a big time graphics video card) but I will spend what I ned to in order to make this enjoyable. I will feel like I wasted the money if this is too noisey to listen to or too difficult to make work or if the sound quality just isn't there.


YOUR ADVICE:

If you will take the time I'd be obliged to hear your advice. BUT you must be very specific about ALL the parts since I will have to locate them on the internet and then provide them to the builder. I won't know what chip sets motherboards use (unless it says it in big black letters in the info on the website)...I don't know what sockets accept what chips.

I am assuming I can get something that will be almost maintanence free since I will only be running ONE SIMPLE application on it.

I am not opposed to using a laptop and external hard drives but I feel I need around 450 gigs of music space. The guy at the builder's said he'd use three hard drives (2 x 400 plus a small one for the iTunes and operating system since there would never be any fragmentation this way according to him)

Also, if there is a need to define impementation to these devices, such as raid 0 vs raid 1 etc...I'd need to know that too.

If these guys won't build it I'd be interested in a builder if you could point me in that direction as well.

Many Many Thanks,
Michael

PS...to give you some idea, my stereo system is superior to my Sony - MDR R-10s and a custom made Singlepower Maestro (with all the upgrades and all NOS tubes) at least IMHO

 

[mbratrud]

What about starting here? :

http://www.quietpcusa.com/acb/showdetl.cfm?&DID=8&Product_ID=121&CATID=9

 

[DrewWinters]

Lynn, I was correcting this statement:

"Generally speaking, aluminum cases are more noisy than steel, and contrary to what people have heard they do not conduct heat as well as steel. "

Technically, aluminum transmits noise better than steel because it absorbs less of the sound, also because it has less mass (i.e. it's easier to get vibrating). Practically speaking however, this tendency is minimal at most when it comes to computer cases because the impact of component choice and case design (especially whether or not the components are mechanically mated to the chassis - IIRC, the LL6070 comes with rubber grommets for the fans and hard drives, minimalizing the case's transference of sound.) is far more salient.

Aluminum cases DO conduct heat better than steel - but the impact is just as minimal as it's effect on sound, and for the same reason - component and case design (this time though, it is layout that is important) will make the most difference. The implication from your wording is that steel, in fact, conducts heat better than aluminum. This is, of course, incorrect. In fact, you later state that because the aluminum case walls are thinner, they conduct heat worse. This is also incorrect, the thicker the walls of the case, the more heat energy is required to heat them up - this means the heat in the case will remain there longer before heating up the walls. The thicker steel would act as insulation to some extent. But all of this is, in practice, irrelevant, since very little heat is transfered from the air to the case anyway, as you have already pointed out.

Ok, here's the summary: I was disagreeing with your conclusion, but agreeing with your reason on the first point, while agreeing with your conclusion but disagreeing with your reasons on the second.

Hope you don't think I'm a prick now - that's not my intent. It's not a big deal in any case. I'm a perfectionist and it bugs me to see even minor incosistences... Sorry, just forget I ever said anything (but I'm right

)