[yage]

Hi everyone,
 
Thanks for showing up and please post your impressions here! I'm glad the weather didn't make a turn for the worse. @sheldaze - will look at some dates for the 'speaker meet'.

 
EDIT: Just wanted to add - @kendavis, though the journey is indeed perilous to your wallet, rest assured: we'll be there every step of the way to cheer you on.

 

[sheldaze]

I'll probably be posting here a few times, as there were a few things I wanted to hear today.
 
And I love small meets because I was able to get to all of them! My first point of testing was focus on a treble glare in my HE-1000. I'm not certain the exact source of the glare. I have read from the HE-1000 thread that there are modifications to make to the headphone itself. But I think I'll start with a simpler change, which is the headphone cable. My cable comes in Tuesday-ish this week, so I'll have more points of reference then.
 
But the thing I know today - when moving from a $1100 amplifier to a $3500 - $4000 (American dollars) amplifier, the glare goes away. This recognition started with my listening to the Cavalli Audio Liquid Gold in Atlanta. And there was nothing different, regarding the glare, listening to the 430HAD today. BTW, I think that same dollar value translates to around $1630 for a Chinese amplifier 

 
 
Gold versus 430HAD - unfortunately, I heard both at meets. I did not listen to either for too terribly long. Both attacked the treble issue, with excellent success. But beyond that, there was dramatic difference. The Moon seems to go for a flat solid-state sound. The Cavalli seemed to have no need to demonstrate an ability to conquer the basics of solid-state, and moved into another realm - probably that Cavalli sound you've likely read about. Would I have a problem with either one - ummm, not as far as I could tell. But the more ideal would be to listen to an amplifier costing that much for at least an hour, unperturbed. Such as I'm doing right now with the Grado PS1000e, but that's a story for another post...
 
For my ears, the discerning headphone is the HD800S. For years, I've been particular about the HD650. Now I'm particular about the HD800S. While I did not listen to the Gold with the HD800S, I got the impression it did something special. From a strictly personal perspective, I need this. I need something that is not quite straight and narrow before I'll like the HD800S. Perhaps this is because the HD800S is already straight and narrow? But while I heard nothing wrong, I did not hear something that might entertain me for a long time (hence the hour required listening) on the HD800S.
 
Did it remind me of the Meridian Prime - maybe just a little. Did it remind me of the Ragnarok - that amplifier to me still suffocates the HD800S. So I'll say no. It was a bigger soundstage than I heard on the Ragnarok. And perhaps only second to the Gold, that being because of the human factor. When you hear something of interest, you listen more deeply and closely. To my ears, this was a very tightly fought second to that beast.

 

[yage]

I hope folks had a good time listening to the Moon Neo 430HAD. I certainly think it's one of the finest components I've heard, irrespective of price. Right now, I'm going back and forth between the HD 600 and the HD 800 S on tracks from Blue Train, Getz/Gilberto, and Afrocubism on a fully balanced setup with the QB-9 DSD serving as the source. The Neo handles the music beautifully with both headphones. With the HD 800 S, though, I feel it has an especially graceful approach that makes the electronics and nearly all sense of artifice disappear. It's a spooky sensation and I rarely encounter it. I can't imagine the Liquid Gold being that much better but if it is...

 

[kendavis]

Yes, @yage... that's what I'm afraid of 

 

 

[sheldaze]

  Yes, @yage... that's what I'm afraid of 

 

I was conferring with another Head-Fi'er of a similar mindset - interest in a couple of good amplifiers such as the MicroZOTL2. He said, though he loves the MicroZOTL2, his preference was still the Master 11 (by a small margin). And if you don't follow the Chinese manufacturers, that is the R2R (multibit) version of the Audio-GD NFB-27H amplifier you were listening to yesterday, from @gandhisfist.
 
Also, did you get a chance to listen to the Simaudio Moon NEO 430HAD yesterday? With your HD800? What did you think?

 

[kendavis]

  I was conferring with another Head-Fi'er of a similar mindset - interest in a couple of good amplifiers such as the MicroZOTL2. He said, though he loves the MicroZOTL2, his preference was still the Master 11 (by a small margin). And if you don't follow the Chinese manufacturers, that is the R2R (multibit) version of the Audio-GD NFB-27H amplifier you were listening to yesterday, from @gandhisfist.
 
Also, did you get a chance to listen to the Simaudio Moon NEO 430HAD yesterday? With your HD800? What did you think?

Yes @sheldaze, I was impressed by the one that @gandhisfist brought... and it's much more flexible that the MicroZOTL2 and it could be used as a DAC and preamp. I didn't listen to the Moon--I probably should have done so, but it was occupied most of the time anyway. I just saw a listing for an Audio-GD. Maybe I need to give it a closer look. I could use that downstairs (and sell my current preamp) and still use the Bimby and MicroZOTL upstairs. I'll keep my eye on the classifieds but will also see what's at the July meet. Your thoughts (and anybody else's) are welcome.

 

[sheldaze]

I get these moments of clarity - per the question asked by @Psalmanazar during the meet, which was how does the Delta-Sigma Gungnir sound. Of course we did not answer the question, because it was silly. Get the Gumby or get the Yggy. But if you are planning to get the Emotiva Stealth DC-1, note that the Gungnir (delta-sigma) sounds like it - like almost exactly like it. And when you are done, you can upgrade to the Multibit, and listen some more.
 
Short version - used Gungnir can be bought for the same price as Stealth DC-1. But it can be later upgraded to Multibit. I'll bring my Multibit to the Summer meet. You can compare it against Smitty's setup, which I am sure will be driven by Yggdrasil.

 

[Psalmanazar]

NFB-27H -> Koss PortaPro. The world's best thirty dollar headphone scales.

Stax SR-207. An okay but severely overpriced headphone. Warm with no impact and uppermid/high frequency issues. Beethoven and Vivaldi sounded hilariously wrong on it. More detailed but more wrong than the PortaPro. Perhaps the 207 is comparable to an AKG K/Q 701/2 or something.

Moon Neo 430. Audibly V-shaped "endgame" headphone amplifier. Has HF issues and is warmer/bassier than neutral. Clapton's guitar was somewhat masked on Cream's White Room and Ginger Baker's drum kit was somehow sibilant on the HD 650.

Led Zeppelin III. I haven't listened to this on anything vaguely high fidelity in years. Why is there so much tape hiss Jimmy Page?
 
Quote:

  I get these moments of clarity - per the question asked by @Psalmanazar during the meet, which was how does the Delta-Sigma Gungnir sound. Of course we did not answer the question, because it was silly. Get the Gumby or get the Yggy. But if you are planning to get the Emotiva Stealth DC-1, note that the Gungnir (delta-sigma) sounds like it - like almost exactly like it. And when you are done, you can upgrade to the Multibit, and listen some more.
 
Short version - used Gungnir can be bought for the same price as Stealth DC-1. But it can be later upgraded to Multibit. I'll bring my Multibit to the Summer meet. You can compare it against Smitty's setup, which I am sure will be driven by Yggdrasil.

Thanks! That would be the way to go once I pick up a new pair of near fields and want the Gumby. If I like the Yggy a lot more (not just 5% more), then of course Emotiva DC-1 and save for Yggy would be the best way as then I would have a balanced back-up sigma-delta DAC.

 

[sheldaze]

  Thanks! That would be the way to go once I pick up a new pair of near fields and want the Gumby. If I like the Yggy a lot more (not just 5% more), then of course Emotiva DC-1 and save for Yggy would be the best way as then I would have a balanced back-up sigma-delta DAC.

You gain an AES digital input and an unbalanced pass-thru (I have not read how good this is).
You lose the ability to control volume of the output and you lose one set of RCA outputs - I plan to run output to both MicroZOTL2 and Black Widow, so this would be a loss for me.
 
Now I need Smitty to share one or two of his track selections. Or are we going to try the common list of music again 

Don't want to hijack the thread, so I'll wait for the appropriate new thread.

 

[sheldaze]

This post will be pretty short. The band on the demo HD800S was the only HD800 band from which I have felt discomfort. I'd elaborate, but I know nothing more. And I'm getting no additional information from the peanut gallery, which wants to simply poke fun at oddly shaped heads. Both my HD800 and HD800S feel fine on my cranium, so I am somewhat apathetic to the issue. Yet my interest is piqued slightly by it being the only other HD800S I have ever put on my head.
 
So, if anyone with a longer history on Head-Fi recalls another such report of an HD800 with an uncomfortable band, I'd be curious. I posted in the HD800S thread, where a person has reported such an issue with the new headphone. But he simply returned his (or sold it).

 

[yage]

Yeah, that's strange. I listened to it a lot yesterday and noted no discomfort. Perhaps my nerves have been desensitized in that area by the weight of the LCD-XC.

 

[wtnwin111]

@sheldaze I did not dive into hd800s, what surprises me is your hek and your hugo, which I prepare to get them. Driven by Moon, he1000 is full mouth of detail and emotionally mesmerizing. Compared with HD800, the hek sound image is more concentrated while hd800 is comparatively spreading out. And in terms of details, hek granulates the detail to make it more clear, so-called "objectivise" the detail;  while the hd800 presents these detail smoothly and analytically, which I feel less emotional. All in all, I feel Hek is more emotional and energetic while it has all the essential things that hd800 has. What a headphone! (I am so sorry I have to leave earlier, and I am really regretful that I do not have a chance to compare he1000 with stax headphone, I really would like to listen to your guys' impression on this comparison )
 
HUGO is another surprise but it is as expected, it is so famous that I am craving for listening to it for a very long time. I had a lot of dap devices: hm901, aune m1, musiland 08mp etc. But among them all, hugo has the best portable dac . It is so detailed. The treble is bright, sharper, faster and the transient response is airy faster than all other daps. I had a benchmark dac and a mytek 192 and a benchmark dac2. Upon my impression on hugo, the dac is matching level of dac1 and mytek 192, but not dac2. Mytek 192 might be a little bit better, which has comparatively a better sound-stage and better control but overall it is less emotional. In term of the amp in hugo, it is not as good as 08mp. It has less control and it makes the sound stage of my hd800 smaller.
 
@sheldaze Right now I am really interested in hugo TT, I want to set up a hiend system for my hd800. For dac, did you compare hugo TT with hugo? Or do you have any recommendation for hi-end hd800 system?  My watch list for amp: ecba DNA 2a3;  and for dac; hugo TT, Metrum Acoustics Pavane. Any impression on these? Look forward to see anyone's opinion on these.

 

[sheldaze]

  @sheldaze I did not dive into hd800s, what surprises me is your hek and your hugo, which I prepare to get them. Driven by Moon, he1000 is full mouth of detail and emotionally mesmerizing. Compared with HD800, the hek sound image is more concentrated while hd800 is comparatively spreading out. And in terms of details, hek granulates the detail to make it more clear, so-called "objectivise" the detail;  while the hd800 presents these detail smoothly and analytically, which I feel less emotional. All in all, I feel Hek is more emotional and energetic while it has all the essential things that hd800 has. What a headphone! (I am so sorry I have to leave earlier, and I am really regretful that I do not have a chance to compare he1000 with stax headphone, I really would like to listen to your guys' impression on this comparison )
 
HUGO is another surprise but it is as expected, it is so famous that I am craving for listening to it for a very long time. I had a lot of dap devices: hm901, aune m1, musiland 08mp etc. But among them all, hugo has the best portable dac . It is so detailed. The treble is bright, sharper, faster and the transient response is airy faster than all other daps. I had a benchmark dac and a mytek 192 and a benchmark dac2. Upon my impression on hugo, the dac is matching level of dac1 and mytek 192, but not dac2. Mytek 192 might be a little bit better, which has comparatively a better sound-stage and better control but overall it is less emotional. In term of the amp in hugo, it is not as good as 08mp. It has less control and it makes the sound stage of my hd800 smaller.
 
@sheldaze Right now I am really interested in hugo TT, I want to set up a hiend system for my hd800. For dac, did you compare hugo TT with hugo? Or do you have any recommendation for hi-end hd800 system?  My watch list for amp: ecba DNA 2a3;  and for dac; hugo TT, Metrum Acoustics Pavane. Any impression on these? Look forward to see anyone's opinion on these.

Would love to hear the Hugo TT. So when you get it, but sure to bring it to the next meet 

 
In all seriousness, the Hugo was a rather random purchase. After listening to DACs like the Ayre Codex and Metrum Musette, I became acutely aware of the musical information that was missing in the Chord Mojo. And when I say musical, I do not mean to suggest that it is less fun. I mean more of a warmth, or simply less detail around the musical instruments. After listening to the Hugo and Mojo, I still think they are equally capable boxes. I do not think (in 20 years when the number of taps is finally known) that the Hugo is going to be revealed to be more capable than the Mojo. I think they were tuned differently, intended for a different purpose.
 
The Hugo is good, but at the crux - the Hugo was a disappointment to me. The box is clunky whereas the Mojo is pure elegance:
 

1. On the version of the Hugo later released (my version) they bored out the holes around the RCA outputs. This was to allow for larger RCA - basically all RCA cables I own are larger. But they neglected to do the same for the RCA-shaped digital COAX input. This means I cannot use my DAP, which requires my mini to RCA digital cable - its an upgraded cable, too large to fix the Hugo. The COAX input on the Mojo is an elegant mini connector, fitting both the mini to RCA cable from a transport, and a mini to mini cable from the DAP.
2. On the Hugo, you must select the input, using some weird visual cue of lights displayed in a tiny window. First, I tend to forget which button changes the crossfeed and which button changes the digital input. Then, I will never recall what color is associated with what input. It is a real cluster. The Mojo is simple, prioritizing USB first, COAX second, and optical (Toslink) last. Of course I've never connected all three - I never would. So basically the Mojo (by my use case) plays whatever is plugged in. Simple - elegant. Done.
3. The volume on both Hugo and Mojo, when set to line level, is just a little hot. This time, I'll go in reverse. Tap the volume down button on the Mojo 3 times, and you're at about the correct line level of a standard DAC. This is where the volume dial on the Hugo annoys me. It spins, and does not quite register each time I intend to click down just one notch. It works well-enough for headphone output, but is just terrible for locking into the precise 3-clicks down when I want line level.
4. Then I thought the purpose of the RCA outputs was to maintain line level. Instead they output the same volume as the 1/4" and 1/8" phono outputs. This to to me makes the bored out holes on the Hugo even less useful. I'd rather keep the two 1/8" phono outputs of the Mojo, which I have used frequently to drive into two separate amplifiers, over the clunky RCA, and 1/4" phono, and two additional 1/8" phono outputs.
5. I think the digital inputs and analog outputs are similar distributed jumbled mess all around the Hugo. RCA outputs, and the 3 phono outputs, are on the same side as optical and COAX input. But USB inputs are on the opposite side, along with the confusing array of buttons, on-off switch, and power input. Mojo has all inputs on one side and all outputs on the other. It has a power button (not a clunky switch) conveniently on top. And I already mentioned the separate buttons for volume.
6. The Hugo has a separate charger. The Mojo simply accepts the same charger as my Android phone, sharing the same style connector for data and power. So when on travel, you can plug into your laptop to charge part of the time, and plug into the other USB port to play music the other part - no need for a power brick, or potential to lose the proprietary power brick of the Hugo.
7. Last, and worst - the Hugo is terribly sensitive to USB noise. My 2008 Mac laptop makes terrible noise - it is a great test of a device's ability to filter this noise. And I've honestly not noticed issues when feeding Grace Design m9xx or Chord Mojo. But when feeding the Chord Hugo, which I thought was entirely powered by battery, the noise was intolerable from my Mac laptop. Thus I need to feed through a Schiit Wyrd into the Hugo. It is not a very elegant desktop setup.

 
And this last point is the primary purpose, in my view, for the Chord Hugo TT. It is supposedly unperturbed by such a terrible source due to galvanic isolation.
And I think it is much more elegant than the Hugo, similar to the simplicity of the Mojo.
And it has the balanced output that people have been craving - not on the headphone side, but on the DAC side feeding into a balanced amplifier.
 
I would love to be able to compare Chord Hugo TT straight from my laptop versus Chord Hugo fed via Schiit Wyrd. Though I'm not so certain that the headphone amplifier portion of the Hugo TT is that much more powerful than the Hugo. I've read rumors that it is and other rumors that is is not.
 
And that about sums up my 2 cents worth. Hugo sounds good enough though 

 

 

[omrcz]

I missed this one as well
I didn't know about this meeting. Hope you guys had a good time.

 

[sheldaze]

  I missed this one as well
I didn't know about this meeting. Hope you guys had a good time.

I think I'm cross-posting, but...
The big meet is July 10. I could certainly PM the whole group about that meet. But I'm also (just) starting to keep a thread of local activities that I am aware of:
 
http://www.head-fi.org/t/809537/dc-area-head-fi-meet-announcement-thread
 
Which reminds me, there is something upcoming at Gifted Listener, I should add...