[kmhaynes]

My daughter came home with Big Whiskey, so I popped in the CD player, plugged in my MS1, and almost had to rip them of just during the first full song, Shake Me... Way too compressed sounding, almost synthesized, too loud, everything pushed to sonic limits, sibilance, just hot sounding.

One of the catchiest songs, Why I Am is the WORST -- ruined. And I know the MS1 is far from the most detailed phones available -- I can't imagine how unlistenable this song would be on a RS1 / K702 / HF-2....

Too bad because there are some pretty good songs -- Squirm, Seven, ...

 

[IPodPJ]

I also agree. Not only did I not really care for this album but the sound quality is horrible. DM has always had great production on his albums and there was just no excuse for the poor quality of this one. Maybe they don't care anymore since most people purchase from iTunes and listen on iPods nowadays.

 

[salannelson]

How does it sound on vinyl?

 

[dobyblue]

Quote:

Originally Posted by BobMcN /img/forum/go_quote.gif Anyone heard the vinyl version yet? Is the mastering any better?

Quote:

Originally Posted by salannelson /img/forum/go_quote.gif How does it sound on vinyl?

It is much better on vinyl - I have confirmed with Sterling Sound that the vinyl was indeed mastered at 24-bit, separately from the master that was used for CD. It is immediately evident in the songs with more dynamic like Lying in the Hands of God, but the punch of the drums throughout, the silibance of the cymbals and hi-hats, it's consistently a superior experience thank God.

Quote:

Originally Posted by kamcma /img/forum/go_quote.gif In my opinion, and I'll go out on a limb and say that others would likely agree with me, you picked the wrong DMB album to start with. Like so many bands, their older stuff is just plain better.

This is the first album in 11 years that a lot of people would say is finally DMB again. That this album belongs in with "the big three" is a sentiment I've seen echoed across many of the DMB message boards.

Quote:

Better music, and most of those are pre-loudness war.

Quote:

Originally Posted by tintin47 /img/forum/go_quote.gif their older albums are good to very good, with top notch recordings. Before These Crowded Streets is at the top of my list. It is an amazingly mastered and very clean recording on top of everything.

Quote:

Originally Posted by IPodPJ /img/forum/go_quote.gif I also agree. Not only did I not really care for this album but the sound quality is horrible. DM has always had great production on his albums and there was just no excuse for the poor quality of this one.

Man, I have a very different opinion of all the other albums than y'all do. I think UTTAD and Stand Up had the best mastering, but they're still too hot and there's definitely nothing amazing about Crash or Before These Crowded Streets - both suffer quite badly from either drc (BTCS) or clipping (Crash).

[size=medium]The following shots all have a look at the top 10dB of the track with the waveform showing any clipping underneath.[/size]

1) Here's a look at Too Much from Crash, extracted using EAC.

You can see far too much clipping and the majority of the time only 2~3dB of dynamic range.

2) Here's Tripping Billies, also from Crash:

Blech, this is the worst! Any more clipping and you'd have an Oasis song!! Again, 2~3dB of dynamic range and that's pushing it.

3) Here's Rapunzel from Before These Crowded Streets:

No clipping, but plenty of brickwalling - the last minute and a half of the song has less than 1dB of dynamics which even when you're rocking out like they are shouldn't happen - the nature of drums alone doesn't allow it. Plenty of compression going on here. The rest of the song manages around 4dB of dynamic range. So overall not as bad as Crash, but certainly not a well mastered record by any stretch of the imagination.

I think we can all agree that Everyday is compressed to hell and was probably made into a mess by Glen Ballard before it ever went to mastering, it's one solid blob of noise; Busted Stuff is around the same levels as BTCS.

Stand Up - 2005, the loudness war is in full effect.

4) Lousiana Bayou is one of the hardest rocking songs on Stand Up, here it is:

No clipping, clearly a bit of compression going on but compared to Rapunzel this looks like gold - around 6dB of dynamic range during most of the song.

Ted Jensen did the mastering for UTTAD, Crash, Busted Stuff and BTCS...as well as Groogrux...so I would imagine he did Everyday as well. However Stand Up was mastered by Brian Gardner who works at Bernie Grundman Mastering!! What a surprise that this album sounds so much better than any Jensen got his hands on.

Quote:

Maybe they don't care anymore since most people purchase from iTunes and listen on iPods nowadays.

I don't think they know any better, but hopefully they'll start looking into it a bit more. I was 3rd row dead centre at SPAC this year and I took in a sign that is not the usual fluff the band gets to read when they come on stage. Stefan gave it vigorous nods of his head and pointed a couple of times in agreement which was very encouraging. This was the sign:

Hopefully when they get around to releasing the back catalogue on vinyl they'll do it all from the analog tapes - there is word that this is coming down the pipeline sometime soon. The difference between Big Whiskey on vinyl and on CD is like night and day - Big Whiskey on CD is FULL of clipping and has so much compression on it it's just impossible to listen to at volume on a decent system. Tracks like Shake Me and Why I Am have around 1dB of dynamic range and are pushed to the absolute max - what a horrid job Ted Jensen has done lately.

They should have given this CD to Bob Ludwig.

 

[mookowz13]

I love the new DMB album but I agree, within 10 seconds of putting it in I couldn't help but notice the overly loud mastering and that disappointed me, it hasn't stopped me from listening to it but it does take a little enjoyment out of it.

 

[intoart]

I have put GrooGrux in my sell pile. The songs are just not good enough to overcome the awfulness of the sound. This one goes in with Californication as an example of Loudness War mastering at its absolute worst.

 

[dobyblue]

I have no doubt these crappy CD releases have contributed to the resurgence in vinyl.

 

[TheMaestro335]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Oteil /img/forum/go_quote.gif I agree. This album was mastered too hot!! Another album we can chock up to the loudness war. Unfortunately, this album has no dynamics whatsoever. It's too bad because I really like the music.

Hey,
You are not the Oteil from the A brothers are you? Or are you just a big fan?

 

[salannelson]

Unfortunately I was really disappointed with this alubum so I won't be buying it on vinyl. Just wondering.

 

[linuxworks]

Quote:

Originally Posted by dobyblue /img/forum/go_quote.gif I have no doubt these crappy CD releases have contributed to the resurgence in vinyl.

this offends me.

not your statement but the industry trend.

"lets revive a dying format and tempt high end users with the DATA on that format".

same damned sneaky trick they are pulling to 'sell' people on true-dts and high-def BD audio formats. the mix is different and when you hear some A/B in the store, of COURSE its setup so that B sounds better. duh! but its not a fair fight since its not format vs format but mix vs mix! ;(

vinyl has no kind of DRM but it has a kind of copy protection that is 'hard' to defeat for the purist. no one at home can copy an LP and not have it go thru some destructive process. you can clone cd and dvd but not lp! each person who tries to make their own LP copy will get slightly different results.

I believe this is used to keep this dying format alive.

if you had the choice to PICK which media AND which mix, would you then pick vinyl? if you had the mix on the format that you prefer?

most of the vinyl vs cd arguments end up being about the data on the disc, not the format, itself.

its a damned shame they try to BUNDLE them together when there is no logical reason to do so. only marketing ;( ;(

 

[BobMcN]

Yeah, Crash always sounded awesome in the car, but I can clearly hear clipping and sibilents and such when I play it on the main rig. Too bad, because the dynamics are there and the songs are great. It could have been a truly respectable audiophile album if the mastering was just a bit better.

Bob

 

[dobyblue]

Quote:

Originally Posted by linuxworks /img/forum/go_quote.gif same damned sneaky trick they are pulling to 'sell' people on true-dts and high-def BD audio formats. the mix is different and when you hear some A/B in the store, of COURSE its setup so that B sounds better. duh! but its not a fair fight since its not format vs format but mix vs mix! ;(

I'm not really sure about this part. TrueHD and dts-ma are lossless, this is the first time you're able to watch films and/or concerts with lossless 24-bit multi-channel audio. DVD is all lossy and when you compare a DVD to the Blu-ray it's well worth the upgrade. The best DVD 5.1 tracks are no contest at all to the best PCM, dts-ma and TrueHD mixes on Blu-ray. Take the Dave Matthews and Tim Reynolds Live at Radio City Music Hall. The DVD has a 448 Kbps Dolby Digital 5.1 track on it. The Blu-ray has a lossless 24-bit/96kHz Dolby TrueHD 5.1 track on it which works out uncompressed to 13,824 Kbps.

Quote:

vinyl has no kind of DRM but it has a kind of copy protection that is 'hard' to defeat for the purist. no one at home can copy an LP and not have it go thru some destructive process. you can clone cd and dvd but not lp! each person who tries to make their own LP copy will get slightly different results. I believe this is used to keep this dying format alive. if you had the choice to PICK which media AND which mix, would you then pick vinyl? if you had the mix on the format that you prefer?

I think there are some great CD's out there and it's sad what all the compression, brickwalling and clipping has done to CD as a format, but even the best CD's I have are no match for the best vinyl's in my collection. If I had the choice I'd go for Blu-ray as a format for a number of reasons.

1) Durability - far superior durability to DVD, CD, SACD or vinyl.
2) Multi-channel audio - up to 24/96 for 7.1 and 24/192 for 5.1, schwing!
3) Mass market chances - with Blu-ray players dropping under $100 you're going to see adoption continue to grow at a faster rate than DVD did, than CD did, than anything to this point...all while in a recession. Blu-ray sales were up again 91% through the first 6 months over the the same time period in 2008. You release your album on Blu-ray and you can do so many things:

a) no Double Dipping - the studios are wise to the mistakes they made with DVD. All the double dipping is the reason why there are so many $3 bargain bins right now. BD-Live allows downloadable content, Neil Young has already done it with his "Archives" releases and the only people that can get the newly re-mastered tracks are the Blu-ray owners directly to their hard drive or SD card, etc.
b) Multi-channel audio - there IS a market for surround mixes and when done right they're absolutely amazing.
c) Audiophiles - high resolution 24-bit/192kHz tracks mastered directly from the analog source or 24-bit master will please those just looking for high quality audio.
d) Value added - bonus features like the current video in HD or some making of footage from the studio, interviews, etc., all in 1080p with lossless audio. Works even better for catalogue releases as they can add much more like Unplugged clips, live performances from the time, etc.
e) Portability - a CD digital copy included for you to back up or travel with a 16-bit/44.1kHz copy of said recording.

They have one chance left in Blu-ray to have a physical format that works. I don't think vinyl will see mass market adoption even if they discontinued CD production, which would be stupid at this point while it's still #1 even if it's declining rapidly.

CD would definitely be the last format I would pick. I love SACD and I love my record collection - well looked after on a good rig I believe it may still be the best medium we have but I do love a good surround mix as well so I'll be very happy when they start releasing albums on Blu-ray which I think is only about 2 years away now.

 

[intoart]

Quote:

Originally Posted by linuxworks /img/forum/go_quote.gif most of the vinyl vs cd arguments end up being about the data on the disc, not the format, itself.

I would say all, rather than most. CD is a fundamentally superior format. The only circumstance in which it is possible for vinyl to sound better than CD is when the mastering of the CD has been botched.