[pataburd]

Quote:

Originally Posted by tourmaline /img/forum/go_quote.gif One thing i don't like about the darkvoice is two potentiometers for left and right channel. You never get it right unless you use stepped pots in there or use one combined pot for left and right. The other one being total tube sound. I like the hybrids best. Looks nice though. enjoy the amp.

Tour,
Actually, the two potentiometers can come in very handy to really "fine tune" the balance. I avail myself often of this feature on the 337, always to satisfying effect. To be honest, I thought having two volume pots would be a pain, too, but my actual experience with the 337 has proven otherwise. I will say, though, that for the D2000 there is way too much gain in too short a twist--on a hair trigger--and therefore not much effective effective control. For the K501 the volume control works better.

Also, IMHE, the 337 does not sound "tubey" at all, rather quite balanced, extended and neutral. This is similar to the experience I had with the 336i (I think the 6AS7 power tube may be the key to such success.) In addition, the 337 offers the punch and dynamics of a good tube design. As an aside, in the past, I've owned Kora (all tube) power amps which I strongly preferred to some of the best SS amps, like the Plinius, where the Koras apparently "beat the Plinius at their own (SS) game." On the other hand, I've heard SS amps with a decidedly tubey presentation.

Again, God willing, I intend to a/b the 337 and the PH-12, stock, then, ideally, mod the PH-12 and re-a/b. Keep in mind that the V-Caps alone that I want to use in the Bada will cost close to $300.

Both the Bada and the Darkvoice are, IMHO, very satisfying amps each in their own, unique way. The sonics in the former are designed around the 6SN7, a tube which imparts tonal/harmonic richness and liquidity; in the latter, the 6SJ7 and 6AS7 successfully achieve very laudible neutrality, authority and detail. Given their "in-the-same-ballpark" MSRP, they make a great pair of amps to compare and comment upon--something I look very much forward to doing. : )

Tour, I'll endeavor to get the ahp fuse into the Bada, and get the Bada back up-and-running next week. : ) It's not going anywhere, believe me! : )

PAB

 

[Skylab]

Quote:

Originally Posted by tourmaline /img/forum/go_quote.gif Have you seen on the pictures what is actually in the modded bada?! If so, you know you can't get any better stuff! In that respect, yes, i am confident my bada is much better then the stock darkvoice...no doubt whatsoever. I know the difference between the stock and my modded one.... it is completely in another ballpark. Almost everything but the pcb has been replaced by high end components. In that respect, neither should you! But as i said earlier, if you like the darkvoice better, who am i to argue with that. Different people, different taste. If i had the darkvoice, i also would totally mod that amp, to get the most out of it. I am convinced that no standard amp sounds the best out of the box!

I have no argument with your saying the modded Bada is great. I'm sure it is! And I have no issue with saying you'd mod the 337 - I plan to have that done at some point.

But I still object to ANYONE making definitive statements about amps they have never heard! Note that I did NOT do that - I made no judgments about the modded Bada, only the stock one, which I HAVE heard. And in your post, you continue to make such judgments! I think this does a disservice to less experienced readers of this thread than you are - since you are making claims about amps you've never heard.

Anyway, enough said. I've made my peace. I've got some nice vinyl spinning through my DV337 and all is right in the world

 

[Mazuki]

Let's hear from pataburd when he does the final a/b.

 

[Mike Wazowski]

OK, guys, been listening, now can't hold anymore - I want this Bada! want it real bada! Seriously. I was planning on getting something else as the first amp for my K701s, but your enthusiasm is so contagious...

Would this be a good place to ask - how about Pacific Valve's reputation, people's experience with it? post-sales issues?.. The website sure looks nice, and I am also considering getting one of their DACs, and perhaps a set off cables...

Thanks for any opinions!

 

[Skylab]

Pacific Valve is great. I bought my Ming Da amp from them, and they were very easy to work with.

 

[tourmaline]

Quote:

Originally Posted by pataburd /img/forum/go_quote.gif Tour, Actually, the two potentiometers can come in very handy to really "fine tune" the balance. I avail myself often of this feature on the 337, always to satisfying effect. To be honest, I thought having two volume pots would be a pain, too, but my actual experience with the 337 has proven otherwise. I will say, though, that for the D2000 there is way too much gain in too short a twist--on a hair trigger--and therefore not much effective effective control. For the K501 the volume control works better. Also, IMHE, the 337 does not sound "tubey" at all, rather quite balanced, extended and neutral. This is similar to the experience I had with the 336i (I think the 6AS7 power tube may be the key to such success.) In addition, the 337 offers the punch and dynamics of a good tube design. As an aside, in the past, I've owned Kora (all tube) power amps which I strongly preferred to some of the best SS amps, like the Plinius, where the Koras apparently "beat the Plinius at their own (SS) game." On the other hand, I've heard SS amps with a decidedly tubey presentation. Again, God willing, I intend to a/b the 337 and the PH-12, stock, then, ideally, mod the PH-12 and re-a/b. Keep in mind that the V-Caps alone that I want to use in the Bada will cost close to $300. Both the Bada and the Darkvoice are, IMHO, very satisfying amps each in their own, unique way. The sonics in the former are designed around the 6SN7, a tube which imparts tonal/harmonic richness and liquidity; in the latter, the 6SJ7 and 6AS7 successfully achieve very laudible neutrality, authority and detail. Given their "in-the-same-ballpark" MSRP, they make a great pair of amps to compare and comment upon--something I look very much forward to doing. : ) Tour, I'll endeavor to get the ahp fuse into the Bada, and get the Bada back up-and-running next week. : ) It's not going anywhere, believe me! : ) PAB

Hi pataburd,

sorry, i don't think so. In alot of recordings one channel is louder then the other, it was recorded that way! What you try to do with the 2 pots is to compensate for that, you don't balance the sound, you try to compensate!

First thing i would mod!

Yeah, try the new ahp fuse out in the bada, make sure you turn it around and listen. The fuses are strangely enough directional. Meaning: one direction sound better then the other.

In general, most tube amps are slower then fets....and good bass is mostly a problem with tube amps as well.

keep in mind that the darkvoice 337 new is more expensive then the bada. So comparing a 1000 dollr amp, that is where i saw it for on the web, to a 450-500 dollar amp is in favour of the bada.

Take out some caps, as we (black stuart and i) suggested and you find it will sound much better, still.
Find out for yourself what a difference it can make.

I think there's not much you can do with the darkvoice, maybe changing transformers, wich will be very expensive! and changing pots for stepped ones if you wanna have 2 in there or switch to a good 1 pot. 2 stepped pots will cost you more then 300 dollars! With the bada, you can shunt the blu alps...for peanuts...
Enjoy both amps.

 

[tourmaline]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Skylab /img/forum/go_quote.gif I have no argument with your saying the modded Bada is great. I'm sure it is! And I have no issue with saying you'd mod the 337 - I plan to have that done at some point. But I still object to ANYONE making definitive statements about amps they have never heard! Note that I did NOT do that - I made no judgments about the modded Bada, only the stock one, which I HAVE heard. And in your post, you continue to make such judgments! I think this does a disservice to less experienced readers of this thread than you are - since you are making claims about amps you've never heard. Anyway, enough said. I've made my peace. I've got some nice vinyl spinning through my DV337 and all is right in the world

Likewise, you are making claims about a totally different amp that is nowhere near the original amp it was.

And i know the amps in that segment, remember the thread where the bada came out first against 21 or 22 headamps!

If you look internally into the bada, the disadvantage as they say, can be as well an advantage. If you have caps in there that you can switch for much better sounding ones, the margin can be bigger then an allready at it's max. amp.

Also, the bada is cheaper then the darkvoice, i saw 1000 dollars on the web...

If you spend 500 on the bada for components............

Alot of people think the 6sn7 is a really good tube.

As i said earlier, buy what you like...

 

[Skylab]

Quote:

Originally Posted by tourmaline /img/forum/go_quote.gif Likewise, you are making claims about a totally different amp that is nowhere near the original amp it was. And i know the amps in that segment, remember the thread where the bada came out first against 21 or 22 headamps! If you look internally into the bada, the disadvantage as they say, can be as well an advantage. If you have caps in there that you can switch for much better sounding ones, the margin can be bigger then an allready at it's max. amp. Also, the bada is cheaper then the darkvoice, i saw 1000 dollars on the web... If you spend 500 on the bada for components............ Alot of people think the 6sn7 is a really good tube. As i said earlier, buy what you like...

NO, I did NOT make ANY claims about the modded Bada, one way or another. Read my posts - that simply isn't true.

And the fact that the Bada came out first in Tbonner's reviews doesn't mean you can claim it sounds better than an amp you haven't heard. That review did not include the DV337, IIRC.

I of course agree that the Bada is cheaper than the DV337, and if it can be modded to sound better, it may well represent the better value for someone who is comfortable modding their amp. But until someone actually compares them, that is just speculation, and of course, as you rightly point out, will still be in the ear of the listener.

With regard to the 6SN7, I certainly agree with you that is is a good sounding tube -- I have about 60 of them

I have two amps that use them, the SP Extreme and the SpaceTech Labs. Like the Bada, they use the 6SN7 as driver tubes. But both use 6AS7G tubes for power, as opposed to the Bada, which uses transistors for power. I prefer the 6AS7 over transistors. As always, YMMV.

 

[Mike Wazowski]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Skylab /img/forum/go_quote.gif Pacific Valve is great. I bought my Ming Da amp from them, and they were very easy to work with.

Thanks for replying!..

 

[tourmaline]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Skylab /img/forum/go_quote.gif NO, I did NOT make ANY claims about the modded Bada, one way or another. Read my posts - that simply isn't true. And the fact that the Bada came out first in Tbonner's reviews doesn't mean you can claim it sounds better than an amp you haven't heard. That review did not include the DV337, IIRC. I of course agree that the Bada is cheaper than the DV337, and if it can be modded to sound better, it may well represent the better value for someone who is comfortable modding their amp. But until someone actually compares them, that is just speculation, and of course, as you rightly point out, will still be in the ear of the listener. With regard to the 6SN7, I certainly agree with you that is is a good sounding tube -- I have about 60 of them I have two amps that use them, the SP Extreme and the SpaceTech Labs. Like the Bada, they use the 6SN7 as driver tubes. But both use 6AS7G tubes for power, as opposed to the Bada, which uses transistors for power. I prefer the 6AS7 over transistors. As always, YMMV.

Wich tubes you got? Only a handfull of 6sn7's are really sought after.

I also got a pair of extremely rare sylvania w's wich are considdered best of 6sn7. I use them in the bada right now. Some 6sn7's fetch crazy prices, like the sylvania w's metal and black base, rca reds, wgta etc.

You didn't say it in much words but you have your reservations, as do i for the 337 standard. Alot of components doesn't necessarily mean it sounds bad or not as good...as a matter afact, alot of high end amps have way more components in an amp and sound better. lots of amps use opamps, but a discrete section sounds simply better, but also takes much more components!

It is not automatically better when you read or hear something is hard wired. I have also another headphone amp wich is hardwired but nowhere near the modded bada.

As i said again, all is preference and if you like the 337 better, who am i to argue, but i just say that the quality of the bada can be improved upon hugely.

it does vary, i like hybrids best, you like the full tube designs best. Both can sound really good, if well implemented!

What i said earlier still goes for alot of full tube designs, a bit slow and bass is mostly a problem. Sound is a preference of course, most tube amps sound a bit warmer, darker..especially in the extreme highs.

Fair enough, the bada is MOSFET powered, better version of a transistor. The toshiba is actually one of the better sounding versions, very well regarded.

 

[Skylab]

Quote:

it does vary, i like hybrids best, you like the full tube designs best. Both can sound really good, if well implemented!

I totally agree! And of course we do all hear things differently

Quote:

the bada is MOSFET powered, better version of a transistor.

Most of the speaker amps I have owned (no way my big B&W's can be driven with tubes) have been MOSFET based. The MOSFET does have the reputation of sounding more tube-like than typical bipolar transistors. So I agree that MOSFETS can be nice and smooth.

Quote:

Wich tubes you got? Only a handfull of 6sn7's are really sought after.

I have tried most of the premium 6SN7 varieties (tube rolling is fun!). What I use in my SP Extreme for the 6SN7 slot is the Mullard ECC32. Wonderful sounding tube, but expensive, and will not work in all 6SN7 circuits.

I also have:

Sylvania: 6SN7W metal base; VT231 tall bottle; 6SN7GT "Bad Boy"; 6SN7WGT (brown base)

RCA: 5692 Red Base; VT231 grey-glass

CBS: 5692 Brown Base; 6SN7GT Tall Bottle (Hytron)

Tung-Sol: 6SN7WGT tall bottle brown base

Mullard: 6SN7GT

Ken-Rad: VT231 black glass

All of these tubes actually sound really, really good to me. The RCA 5692's were the biggest disappointment in some ways - an expensive tube, and for me the grey-glass VT231's sound better. The Sylvania VT231 and 6SN7W are a lively tube, and a lot of fun, as are the Ken-Rad VT231's. My favorite though is the Mullard ECC32, then the RCA VT231 grey glass, followed by the CBS 5692, then the Sylvania 6SN7W metal.

 

[tourmaline]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Skylab /img/forum/go_quote.gif I totally agree! And of course we do all hear things differently Most of the speaker amps I have owned (no way my big B&W's can be driven with tubes) have been MOSFET based. The MOSFET does have the reputation of sounding more tube-like than typical bipolar transistors. So I agree that MOSFETS can be nice and smooth. I have tried most of the premium 6SN7 varieties (tube rolling is fun!). What I use in my SP Extreme for the 6SN7 slot is the Mullard ECC32. Wonderful sounding tube, but expensive, and will not work in all 6SN7 circuits. I also have: Sylvania: 6SN7W metal base; VT231 tall bottle; 6SN7GT "Bad Boy"; 6SN7WGT (brown base) RCA: 5692 Red Base; VT231 grey-glass CBS: 5692 Brown Base; 6SN7GT Tall Bottle (Hytron) Tung-Sol: 6SN7WGT tall bottle brown base Mullard: 6SN7GT Ken-Rad: VT231 black glass All of these tubes actually sound really, really good to me. The RCA 5692's were the biggest disappointment in some ways - an expensive tube, and for me the grey-glass VT231's sound better. The Sylvania VT231 and 6SN7W are a lively tube, and a lot of fun, as are the Ken-Rad VT231's. My favorite though is the Mullard ECC32, then the RCA VT231 grey glass, followed by the CBS 5692, then the Sylvania 6SN7W metal.

There are some full tube designs that can drive large speakers but they are far out of my budget.

The expensive audio note amps and the jadis tube amps and maybe even mcintosh amps can drive these speakers well, but they are really expensive.

I agree, i have the idea that the red base rca is a bit overhyped.

I really like the sylvania w's in my setup. I also have a nos set of 3 jan philips wgta in the bada right now. I still gotta have a closer listen to this combo. It is more musical then the w's, but don't have the dynamics or the drive the w's got. Also slightly less detail.

The w's are fetching crazy prices though...1 tube going for way over 100 dollars. Said to be best driver for 300B.

The 70's jan philips wgta are also hard to come by and quite expensive tubes.

The mullard is a 12au7 tube! I heard the 12 tubes are excellent sounding tubes.

In the bada, the combination of the 6sn7's is more important. Since this is a full 6sn7 design and you got some more tubes in there, you gotta find the best driver tube for your power tubes.

Most people say sylvania is the best brand of 6sn7 tubes. I tend to agree.

 

[pataburd]

Has anyone tried the ECC32/CV-181 with the Bada? This tube was by far my favorite driver on the MPX3! Best MPX3 combination, IMHE, was 1x Mullard CV-181 and 2x Sylvania 6SN7W metal base. (Why? oh why? did I sell those tubes!!!?)

In some circles, the GE 6SN7GTA/B is preferred to the RCA 5692. Have never heard the 5692, but do enjoy the RCA VT-231 and "smoke glass" 6SN7GT.

Tour, maybe I'll get a Sylvania 6SN7W for the Bada before the "big showdown" w/the DV337. : ) I, too, like the Sylvanias in general. 1x Sylvania 6SN7GTA and 2x Raytheon 6SN7GT is one of my favorite combinations on the PH-12 lately. Right now, my best tubes for the Bada are 1x Mullard ECC33 and 2x Russian 1578. : )

Sky, I just rolled those JAN Sylvania VT-116A in to the DV337--very nice! Better than the JAN Philips 6SJ7WGT and the Philco 7C7, IMHO (at least with the RCA 6AS7G, which was not one of my favorite power tubes in the DV336i). The D2000 sound really sweet with the 337 right now. Will try to post a more detailed response, especially addressing the 7C7, on the 337 tube-rolling threads. : )

PAB

 

[Skylab]

Yep, I would expect that the Sylvania VT116-A would be the best sounding of those tubes. I am using the mesh-plate Tung-Sol VT116-A's in my 337, and those are the best of all, but the Syl smooth-plate VT116's are second best, IMO, and better than all of the ribbed plate 6SJ7GT types I have tried.

I do agree the Sylvania 6SN7W is a terrific sounding tube, for sure. Better to spend the money on it than the RCA red-base. I actually like the RCA gray-glass VT231 better than the red-base 5692.

Just to be clear, the Mullard ECC32 is not a 12AU7 - that would be an ECC82

 

[wae5]

Why aren't you considering the $200 Little Dot MKIII?