[AnalyticChick]

So after much research on this forum and on the Internet in general, I have decided that I would really like a Creative Nomad Zen Xtra with line out.

...Unfortunately, those don't actually exist. So it has come down to the Zen Xtra, Jukebox 3, and Iriver IHP.

Based on my research/summarization of the information in various Headfi threads:

The Zen Xtra has a great sound quality, great value, good portability, and ability to be upgraded. However, there is no line-out, and people have had problems with random parts breaking off.

The Nomad 3 seems to have the best sound quality, good value, great features, can be upgraded, longest battery time (with two batteries) and two line outs. Yet it is two years old, which makes me wary, and is apparently a beast to carry around.

The Iriver IHP 140 has great features, a line out, and great portability. However, the sound quality is minimally worse than the Creative series and is also the most expensive and non-upgradable to boot.

So I have a few questions regarding various combinations of these three players for any Head-fiers out there:
1) For those with the NJB3, does it bother you that your player is two years old and thus virtually an antique in the digital audio player market?

2) Rationally, I understand the fact that the NJB3 is three stacked jewel cases thick, but personally, how cumbersome is it?

3) For those who know both the IHP and the Creative series, is there really a difference in sound quality. to provide a little more info, I will be listening to mostly tracks ripped off legit CDs (aka not downloaded off P2P networks) with the Shure e5cs.

4) Has anyone ever recorded "on-the-fly" aka using another cd player or stereo with either the IHP or Jukebox 3? How was the end result in terms of quality of recording? I would really love the ability to put music into my player without using a computer. However, if this is going to leave me with inferior tracks, I imght just ditch the whole project and go for the Zen Xtra.

I am not a technophobe, so I feel I can deal with the Nomads' unintuitive menu system. Also, having been used to carrying around a heavy backpack everywhere, I don't think I would have a problem always carting around a purse or bag to contain my player. The software for the Creatives seem really awful, but apparently there is this Notmad program that works miracles. Also, right now I am not planning to get an amp (as this is, after all, my portable setup) and am under the assumption that all three can power my Shures from either the headphone, or line out jack.

Also, I was wondering if Creative has any plans for a Jukebox 4 aytime soon so I should just wait and see.

Thank you so much for reading through this post and I apologize if my questions may seem a bit redundent.
-Newbie out.

 

[GSTom1]

Sorry, but I can’t answer all your questions in detail. I’ll just give you my quick two cents.

The NJB3 may be two years old, but it is far from being dated. It’s still more advanced and has more features than many new units coming out today and has amazing sound. A new firmware was recently released for it, so it’s even better now! The only downside is its size. If you plan to use it at home, at work or in the car a lot, then it’s the perfect system. If you plan to carry it around a lot, you might want to opt for something lighter like the Zen Xtra.

Also, the Creative menu system might not be as slick as the iPod’s, it is not difficult to learn and usel. You’ll have it mastered in no time flat. You have a library with all your music. Then you go into that library and browse by playlists (which you create), artist, album, track title or genre. Then you select the album or track you want to listen to. You play that album or track. While that is playing, you can continue to browse and add more albums or tracks. When you’re done, you can even save everything you’ve selected as a playlist (that can be used in the future). Believe me, it’s not that hard.


Good luck deciding!

 

[Nepomuk]

Yup, here I am again, plugging the JB3. It really is sublime. I lug it everywhere, in my pants pockets, and it doesn't give me any problems (the wired remote helps a lot, though when I didn't have it I put it in my jacket's inside pocket and operated it by feel through the side pocket). I use on-the-fly recording _all_ the damn time, both optical and analog, and it's immensely useful and attention-getting. (`; The 22-hour battery life is glorious, and I couldn't live without all the playlisting features (I'm obsessed with making mix CDs, and I do virtually all the legwork on my JB3). What else? It sounds great, it's reliable, the wireless remote is the bomb... do I feel out of date? No sir. It's still got more bragworthy features than anything else. Is it cumbersome? Not for me. Certainly worlds better than the PCDP I used to tote around. What can I say? I admit I'm a partisan, but those are my answers.

 

[Tolovana]

The NJB3 can be controlled at home with a Harmony or Pronto remote (and maybe others, too). Even though they no longer sell the IR remote, the codes are available.

I just got my NJB3, and the menu system, while not as 'simplistic' as the IPOD, was no problem to use at all.

Carol

 

[bangraman]

The NJB3 is a tank... and that's probably the only real criticism I can throw at it. The firmware is pretty good now, and the HP out is decent with a EQ, which although limited in comparison with the iHP (IMO) definitely works. In terms of connectivity there is no driverless support, although drag and drop of data files is available via a driver and music loading is accomplished through Mediasource (which is an OK program to use in my book, although Notmad has more features). What I did on the occasions that I did wish to transfer data to and fro using the NJB was to carry a USB key with the drivers (<5MB) on it. If you don't have firewire, you're limited however to slow USB1.1 transfers. Firewire transfer is as expected pretty quick.


With the second battery it has class-leading battery life, it's upgradable which is a MAJOR plus if you plan to keep your player for a while, has a logical, if somewhat cumbersome in comparison to the iPod navigation system but is still very easy to use. The Line Out in my recent tests of the iPod/iHP(IMO)/NJB3 was the best of the bunch and is therfore most suitable for amping. It records directly via Mic, Line-in and optical and supports triggered recording and has on-the-fly level adjustment.


The remote has the radio which is as good as the iRiver (IMO) in terms of station pickup, has the same autoscan feature and also allows you to record. The remote has the built-in Mic, unlike the iHP (IMO) where the Mic is built in to the unit. This may be an advantage or hindrance depending on your use. It comes with an IR remote for home use if you need a do-everything machine.


I'm sure there are other pluses and minuses I've missed, but the size and lack of USB 2.0 & Mass Storage Support are the deal-breakers for the NJB3 in comparison to the IHP (IMO). In usability/usefulness, audio quality and ease of use the NJB3 still beats the iHP (IMO).


Edit: Post edited as apparently my posts reference to anything that requires me to say that something is better than the iHP requires an IMO. Otherwise I'm patronised like some clueless newb by an iRiver board mod and I certainly don't need that rubbish.

 

[AnalyticChick]

Quote:

Originally posted by bangraman In terms of connectivity there is no driverless support, although drag and drop of data files is available via a driver and music loading is accomplished through Mediasource (which is an OK program to use in my book, although Notmad has more features). What I did on the occasions that I did wish to transfer data to and fro using the NJB was to carry a USB key with the drivers (<5MB) on it. If you don't have firewire, you're limited however to slow USB1.1 transfers. Firewire transfer is as expected pretty quick. I'm sure there are other pluses and minuses I've missed, but the size and lack of USB 2.0 & Mass Storage Support are the deal-breakers for the NJB3 in comparison to the IHP. In usability/usefulness, audio quality and ease of use the NJB3 still beats the iHP.

Erm, does "no driverless support" just mean one will have to do a little more work downloading and installing drivers onto the Nomad? Is there any more complicated steps involved? In addition, which Firewire card would I want as I am sure my computer does not have one? I have no idea what I am looking for and prices over on Froggle range from $12 to $70. Finally, what is Mass Storage Support?

Additionally, how do people usually tag recordings made with the Jukebox 3? In particular, I am thinking of wavs recorded from the digital in which I read somewhere is actually tagged by the player with the date of the transfer?

 

[Oddball]

No driverless support means you have to use drivers to use the player. It's actually not that bad, just download all the stuff from Creative's website and you're good to go. If I've skipped a step, I haven't suffered the consequences yet. I think you'd need a PCI firewire card...any would be fine...computer geeks, correct me if I'm wrong. I think a cheap one would be fine. The recordings are automatically named as "LINE 2004-04-03 16_10_24" where April 3rd, 2004 was the date the recording was made, and I believe the second bit refers to the time I made the recording.

As far as clunkiness, I used to own an iPod before my NJB3 and the transition wasn't all that bad. Sure, I wish the player was smaller and better looking, but I get over it. The NJB3 is a very nice player. Apple pretty much won't update the 2nd gen iPod I had (there was a petition going around to get on-the-fly playlisting and such) but Creative updated the firmware a few months ago. However, Apple did release an update allowing for the older iPods to use the AAC file format so we could buy iTunes songs and use their program...

I highly doubt a Jukebox 4 will come anytime soon. The market is either for a small mp3 hard drive player or for a full size home one. And Creative's been doing some funky stuff with multimedia players... If you're in Europe, it's my understanding that the IR remote comes with the player, but for unlucky Americans, it's really hard to find one. I'm still looking.

 

[Taphil]

"No driverless support" means three (bad) things:
1) You have to install a driver specifically for the NJB3
2) You cannot access the NJB3 like a normal external hard drive
3) To access the NJB3 to store data, you have to use some Creative or alternative software

The last time I tried, the NJB3 was next to useless for storing data. For example, if I wanted to store a mpeg on the NJB3 and play it off the NJB3, I couldn't. Instead, I had to copy the mpeg off the NJB3 onto my computer's hard drive and then play it.

I say it's bad only if you have a great need to use the NJB3 to store data. I have real external hard drives for that purpose, so it doesn't bother me that the NJB3 can't do it.

And for your questions:
1) No. Nothing in terms of sound quality and features has really come out that's better. And with the recent firmware update, navigating through it and using it is just like using the newer Zen Xtra players.

2) It's cumbersome, which is why I only use it at home sitting around.

My biggest complaint about it was navigating through menus to select music and then to actually play music. But with the new firmware, it's so much better because now there's an option that allows you to you play an album and have the queued songs automatically cleared upon hitting play.

The only problem I've had with the NJB3 was the crazy scroll wheel. It started to not work right. I would scroll down fast and it would scroll down and then scroll up much faster and then repeat. Some people at nomadness.net were having the same problem. They fixed it by spraying contact cleaner into the wheel. I just squirted 100% isopropanol and 100% ethanol into it and that fixed it so it works perfectly now.

For firewire cards, a good one is just as good as an expensive one. Just get one with a TI or VIA chipset, those seem to work better.

 

[AnalyticChick]

Hmm... Thanks for all the good info on the Nomad 3. If I could divert the collective attention for a bit, I was wondering what the general murmuring on the Zen Xtra was, either in comparison to the Nomad 3 or by itself.

Since they have the same SNR (top of the line...), and are both from Creative, I assume the sound quality will be the same. Truth be told, the only reason I am not running out and buying this player is the lack of a line out. However, there are ways around this problem including getting a laptop (which I have to get anyways for college) with USB output and then actually using a compy to rip music.

However, I was also wondering about the random parts falling off quality of this player. Apparently, the headphone jack is especially bad at staying connected to the main part.
Now, GSTom1 mentioned that he (she?) bought one a year ago. What do you think about the durability of the player and have you ever needed to use your Viking warrenty yet?

Another thing about the Zen Xtra that counterintuitively has me worried is that it is a better value than the Ipod. Now, bear with me as I try to explain myself. The Zen Xtra in particular seems to do very well in the categories I care about, namely sound fidelity, hard drive space, and battery life. But if it's such a great player, why is the Ipod so much more expensive for less storage? Being thoroughly capitalist, I have a "more expensive equals better" mentality when it comes to electronics. I just have this vague fear that I will be "getting what I am paying for" and buy the Zen Xtra only to find some massive flaw days later.

Aak, I was over at headroom reading their stuff on portable audio and they think that the Zen Xtra sounds worse than an Ipod. I understand the value of taking all advice with a grain of sodium chloride, but considering what I have found on other parts of the Internet including this forum, does anyone know how they came to that conclusion?

As always, thank you for your advice and responses.

 

[Oddball]

IMHO:
I honestly don't think that any of the big-name mp3 players could be isolated as the one with best sound. I've listened to a couple (but am no expert) and it seems like they have different sound characteristics which cause different people to think that they're good or bad. A lot of people think the iPod is bass deficient, but I think it's neutral and clean. Because sound quality doesn't appear to be the overriding concern in these digital audio players, I don't think there's really a high-end one with a great headphone out that stands above the rest. Some people like the Zen sound, others the iPod sound, the Rio sound, or the iRiver sound, etc. Anyone, feel free to disagree with me.

Many people think that the Zen is a better value than the iPod as far as features. As far as style and clean GUI go, the iPod's better (as the majority seems to believe but some contest). If you want many features in your player, the iPod's not for you. However, the iPod does have a nice plethora of exclusive 3rd party add-ons which can increase the number of features. For the iPod, you're paying for different things than in the Zen. Different players work for different people.

If you want to know the ups and downs of the Creative players, go to nomadness.net and you'll see a lot of comments on their forums. Be warned that a lot of the comments may be negative. There are always going to be the people whose players break, and I've found a lot of them talking at nomadness.