Dallas Meeting Impressions
Feb 18, 2002 at 3:54 AM Thread Starter Post #1 of 43

Flumpus

Needs more Soylent Greento become Omega Man
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Look for a picture thread a little later, but here are some quick impressions...

Once again, the Melos ruled all. Supposedly the MG Head OTL w/ upgraded tubes (JJs and a Raytheon I believe) came closer than anything else, but I didn't get to listen to it much. The Cosmic is awesome, and I wish I could afford one right now. The Max is good, no matter what anyone else says
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No, it's not as good as the Melos, even with the AKG K501s IMO, but that doesn't make it a bad amp! It does have a very smooth sound, with great bass. If you're into solid state, this is the amp. The Corda was surprisingly good. It's bass was lacking compared to the Max and Cosmic, and it wasn't quite as smooth, but had a sonic signature (open and extended) that I like more. Great amp for the price! So many amps... Oh ya, the JMT-built mint tin cmoy is great (it's mine, but others will agree I think
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). I know that at least one person liked it better than the Cosmic, and again, it does have a very different sound. It's definitely brighter, and seems more extended up top. It is lacking some bass though... of course for the great work JMT does and it's great sound (thanks to the wonderful design by cmoy), it's unbeatable IMO. Oh ya, Creek OBH-11 is great, get one if you only have about $150 to spend on an amp.

Let's see, sources... We had my 555, which I think was the best there. SACDs were of course much better than redbook, but even redbook sounded better I think. We had my roommate's Marantz 4000OSE hooked up to a Monarchy DIP, which went to a Cal Sigma DAC (tubed, cool
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). The Cal Sigma and DIP was Steven's stuff. It sounded very good on most stuff. I think the Art DI/O probably sounded a bit better. It was hooked up to a Pioneer DVD player as a transport (thanks Nick) and sounded really nice.

We had lots of headphones there this time. My favorites were the Beyer 931s, just like Tim thought they might be
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Of course my etys were better (glad Steven was there, he's a fellow ety lover), but the 931s were awesome. More on this later, but I might have to get some. The 831s were good too, but felt closed and were lacking something the 931s had. The K1000s were good, but I hate to say it, they needed a sub. But for classical, they were fine as is. The Melos/Rotel combo seemed to be great for K1000 listening
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The K501s were boring...sorry, but they were. Don't yell at me, I don't wanna start any arguments
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The Grado 325s must have been brand new, because they did not sound good. Justin's 125s sounded much better. I'm gonna confirm this with Todd, but I really don't think they had been burned in at all. Uh, HD600s were worse than 931s IMO, etys ruled all (K1000s included), and I think that's about it... More later of course, just some first impression stuff. Need to think about alot of stuff.

I know I forgot alot of stuff, but we had so much here its hard to take it all in. I did get some good comparisons done, and will have to post later about that stuff. We had a great time, had some great food (look at the pictures thread for the pic taken at Wingstop
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), and everyone was real nice. I wanna thank everyone for comin' and bringing so much. I think this meeting was an even bigger success than the last. And just think, next time we'll have the Oris horns, and the W2002s, not to mention the RKV! Hope the other guys post about what they thought, can't wait to hear it...
 
Feb 18, 2002 at 4:10 AM Post #2 of 43
Ahh damn it, looks like I'll have to sell my Supreme to upgrade to a Cosmic for trans-portable use.

Wha?? CHA-47 sounds bright? =( I hope that's not the case with the Sennheiser HD600.

I'm looking to upgrade my mid-fi sources to something smoother. How do you think the Marantz compare to the Harman Kardon and Denon CD players? I've heard that the Marantz sources are more on the bright sound like Yamaha, not what I'm going for (brightness is evil!).

But my heart is with the high end Cary CD-303/200.
 
Feb 18, 2002 at 4:13 AM Post #3 of 43
I don't have a cha-47, I have the cmoy, designed for etys. It's brigther than headroom stuff yes. With the HD600s, it's bright. I don't think the HD600s can be "bright". It also doesn't have quite enough power to get the HD600s performingl ike they should, but the Cosmic does
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The Marantz cdp is decent, probably better than the Denon I'd say. Haven't heard the Harmon Kardon stuff. I wouldn't really consider the Marantz bright anyway.
 
Feb 18, 2002 at 4:31 AM Post #4 of 43
Ok, I feel bad about saying the K501s are boring... I still think that, but I wanna say some good stuff too. When I put them on, they were so smooth, and the soundstage was excellent. They were very relaxing headphones. I guess they're what I wanted the HD600s to be. Ya, the bass wasn't the best, but wasn't the worst either. For $150 I'm not sure I'd get them, but I can definitely see how some people would love them. Not bad, I didn't care for them, unless I just really wanted something relaxing, but would definitely be worth it for alot of people (with good amps).
 
Feb 18, 2002 at 5:17 AM Post #6 of 43
Ya, pretty much... all my headphone impressions are from my 555 and my Melos, which is what I'm used to. The source comparisons are pretty valid, other than the Marantz/Cal Sigma. It was hooked up to the Max the whole night. Other than the Max, the amp comparisons were all done out of my 555 at some point. The two Cosmics were with a Sony DJ-E01 and a Panasonic CT780, so were compared with portability in mind. We used the Silver Lace cables as the reference I guess, since we moved those around a lot (locking interconnects aren't fun when you move 'em around alot). I'd say we were consistent enough to get a good grasp of how the stuff sounded in comparison to everything else.
 
Feb 18, 2002 at 5:24 AM Post #8 of 43
It was tons of fun... just very tired after concentrating on so much listening tonight. After listening to so much stuff in about a 6-7 hour period, you just wanna crash. So I had to get these impressions up before I lost anyhting
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Fortunately I probably have the stuff Headroom sent me for a few more days and will get to spend some more time with that.
 
Feb 18, 2002 at 6:03 AM Post #9 of 43
My 90-second wrapup:

1) I'm happy to have attended... especially since my humble little rig held up very well. The MG Head OTL with Raytheon 5751 and two JJ EL84's sounded wonderful in comparison with the Melos SHA-1. It didn't surpass the Melos, but it was close enough to keep me happy with what I've got. Yay!

The tubes make all the difference, MG Headders. Dump the 12ax7 and get a 5751. I have a RCA, GE, and Raytheon 5751 and all sound very nice.

2) The Beyerdynamic 931 seemed to be the overall favorite. I liked it too. It isn't better than the Sennheiser 580/600... just "different". Both are in the same league of performance, methinks. It's all about whether you prefer warm n' laid back (Senn), or even warmer n' forward (Beyer). If you already own one, don't expect to get a performance boost by buying the other. Dark chocolate or milk chocolate? Minor difference when both are Ghirardelli, right?

3) Tube amps sound better than SS amps.

4) The Corda is the value leader in SS amps. Recommended!

5) The only configuration that made my rig sound a notch lower in comparative performance was the AKG-K1000 coupled with Melos SHA-1 preamp and Rotel power amp. The AKG-K1000 is a badass, WAY OPEN headphone that made classical music sound glorious and magical. Bass was lacking, which left rock and electronica sounding so-so. This could be easily remedied with an external subwoofer or a tube amp specifically designed for use with the AKG-K1000. I want. Yes, I want. Headroom says the K1000 is their favorite headphone? I believe them.

6) For headphone listening, the ART DI/O is an optional purchase. The difference is not terribly apparent when used in a headphone system. Spend the money on a quality source or better 'phones instead. I recommend only considering the ART if it will eventually be used in a traditional stereo speaker system.

7) Next show will be at my place for Oris 200 fun. Due to the huge number of variables involved, I cannot predict how well it will perform. If it comes off as expected, some of you will be going down the Oris Road with me!
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8) The meeting was lots of fun. Big thanks to Chris for the excellent picture taking, to Flumpus for hosting the event (again), and to everyone else for showing up and contributing to the fun.
 
Feb 18, 2002 at 6:57 AM Post #10 of 43
[I'm still way green]

Everyone there was very friendly, accomidating and fun. I had
a great time and thank you to Chris, Chris & Aaron for hosting.

Most of the big issues have been already been covered above.

For me, I learned that I need an amp. The tube amps are the
way to go - but there is a heck of alot of tweaking in there,
not to mention cost. Solid State amps miss that little bit of
warm something, but I assume are more portable. I kick
myself a bit for not playing with the Corda more. Eh, next time...

I really got a kick out of the Penguin Tin Amp though. It is by
no means going to get the true phile there, but for me here
and now the Tin seems like a good and effective fit. Very
portable/somewhat rugged and it makes a notable difference
in quality.

Again, Big Fun. Thanks for the looksee.
 
Feb 18, 2002 at 4:30 PM Post #13 of 43
W/ the stock tubes, I was disappointed w/ the MG Head. Getting some good NOS tubes helped the sound quite a bit.
 
Feb 18, 2002 at 4:48 PM Post #14 of 43
I was intimidated coming into the meeting because, obviously, I'm the newbie among us and don't yet even have my terminology down. This seems unwaranted, though, as the group was friendly and welcoming. Flumpus did an awesome job of hosting with tables laid out for various set ups and power strips for easy shuffling--he even had snack foods and soda. Our dinner break consisted of us going less than half a mile down the road for Wingstop, which I also found agreeable. There were nine of us total, all white guys, for those keeping track. This included my old coworker, Ben, who is also a friend of Nick Dangerous, who I had indeed met before, Flumpus' two roommates, two very different Stevens and one guy who apparently doesn't come here often. For me, this would have been fun even without the audio stuff. It was nice meeting all of you.

Thanks:
In addition to Flumpus, I'd like to thank Headroom for sending us things to use for the meeting. As always, give Headroom a visit at www.headroom.com if somehow someone is reading this and doesn't already know about them.

Disclaimers:

As always, there are my opinions. Anything in this post that seems like a fact only seems that way because I'm either an influencial writer or an overbearing *******, depending on your perspective.


Headphones:

Etymotics 4S
This was the big surprise for me. It pains me to admit how good these are because I hate the very idea of shoving things in my ears. It also defies logic and reason to me that these sound so good. They're actually better to me, in every way--awesome seperation, incredible bass, crystal clear highs and imaging like you wouldn't believe. These also seemed to be the most revealing so a part of me still wonders how they perform on exceptionally poor sources but they were excellent with everything I heard them on. Thanks to whoever donated the spare foamies.

AKG K-1000
At the opposite end of the design spectrum, these things don't even touch your head. You can hear everything in the room as if you weren't listening to headphones at all. And yet, the sound was very nice, clean and detailed. These were lacking a little in the bass department but not nearly as much as the 501s. I imagine these would be enjoyable to own if you didn't have a speaker system at all and could afford the amp to drive them. I was really glad to get to hear these.

AKG 501
These were detailed but very lacking in bass and were too laid back. These qualities overshadowed the headphone for me and made them not a consideration. I didn't spend further time with them.

Sennheiser HD600
I brought a pair of these and another pair were there that had the blue clou cable. Additionally there was at least one pair of 580s there. My opinions of the HD600 are reaffirmed. I find them to be sloppy in the bass and unnatural everywhere else, as if they were running through someone else's ideal EQ settings. I know my opinion of these is unpopular and I'm not going to part with mine until I've heard them on a balls out tube amp (working on acquiring one) but it doesn't look like these are for me. As I believe Nick pointed out, though, if you're going to be into this hobby, owning HD600s at some point is almost mandatory because they are such a common point of reference. I concur--I don't regret my purchase but doubt they are for me, long term.

Beyerdynamic DT931
The 931 is practically the sister of the HD600. As someone put it, "It's two versions of the same flavor." The 931s aren't quite as deep in the bass of the HD600 but in my opinion, are better in every other respect. They are natural sounding and have better imaging with a more forward sound than the 831. If these impressions last when I get hold of a real tube amp, I forsee myself selling the HD600 and moving to the 931.

Beyerdynamic DT831
I brought these. As I said before, these are awesome with horns and vocals and overall a great closed headphone. Again, there's not enough bass here and their laid back presentation was brought into directly sunlight when compared to the other headphones present. The vocals, especially, sound recessed compared to the 931s and likely contribute greatly to why I don't prefer them as much for rock. Still, for a closed headphone, which I require for work, they hold their ground and to even be compared with the other headphones here is quite a statement.

Grado 325 and 125
I found the Grados harsh, grating and uncomfortable. This echos my earlier impressions of them. I'm told the 325s were not broke in and normally sound better but I suspect they would not be to my liking regardless. I didn't give them much time and I don't think anyone else did either.

Amps:
Melos SHA-1
I think it was unanimously agreed that this was the overall best amp at our meeting. The Melos is a hybrid tube/solid state amp that seems to have gathered the strengths of both without the weaknesses of either. They drove every headphone present (except the 1000 which required 10 watts--we had to power those from Flumpus' Rotel). The SHA-1 is noisless, accurate, detailed and quick. It doesn't really seem to have a sweet spot, to me, and does everything equally well. It's worth noting that this was my favorite amp there while listening to the Etys, Sennheisers and 931s--I liked it with everything.

MG Head OTL
As many of you know, I bought and sold one of these. It may surprise you then, to hear that I really loved this amp. Though I still find it a bit sluggish for classical and to have a high noise floor, Nick's tube rolling fixed every other flaw I had considered with this amp. I preferred it in the headphone jack in OTL mode. (With the stock tubes, I could not stand OTL mode.) The highs were not so rolled off and the mids were very sweet. I would not begrudge anyone for finding this to be their favorite amp. For those of you just getting one of these, talk to Nick.

Headroom Max
I feel that I owe an apology to Headroom. While I certainly appreciate their genrosity in sending the equipment to sponsor the even, I can't honestly recommend their flagship amp. In the positives, the Max had deep plunging bass that I only wish I could get into other amps. In the negatives, the highs were rolled off in its unfiltered mode and the amp did not have the detail of the other amps present. At $1600, the Max just seems very overpriced to me and I think to everyone else at the meeting--although they may be nice enough to omit this from their impressions. The Max is very nice to look at, however, with an unrivaled build quality.

Cosmic
For half the price of the Max, the Cosmic is dangerously close. The bass isn't quite as plunging as the Max but it's so close that it's still enviable. The obvious benefit of this amp is its portability and Headwired's porta-rig of the Cosmic, Sony EJ01 and Etymotics in a Traveler bag was certainly a nice combination. The Cosmic does share the Max's flaws, however and some of the details disappear on the Cosmic that were present in the other amps, especially in the highs.

Corda HA-1
This was the amp I brought and is largely responsible for the ill will I've given the Max and cosmic. The HA-1 sadly lacks the plunging bass of the Cosmic and Max, presumably due to its small power supply, but beats either of them in every other way. It's more detailed, seems to be more accurate to me (subjective, I know) and has a better crossfeed filter. The HA-1 is just under $300 if you build it yourself and just over $300 if you let an expert do it for you. I honestly hate to give Jan Meier props because he declined to support our gathering, but I suppose that's more forgivable for a Germany company run by an engineer as a hobby to his daytime medical job. Regardless, the HA-1 is an incredible value and that was reaffirmed by this event. I especially liked the HA-1 with the Etymotics as the bass didn't seem as lacking as with the other already bass shy headphones.

Creek OBH-11
I was immediately struck by how small this amp is. It seems to much larger on their web site. Unfortunately, the small amp produced a small sound and I felt as if the amp was constantly straining to provide the music it did. A power supply upgrade is available for this amp and is probably warranted. I suspect it would improve immensely from the power supply and withold further judgment against it. This is also an affordable amp and is relatively inexpensive even with the upgrade, so I certainly wouldn't discount it, especially if you are limited in budget. It lacks a crossfeed filter or any additional features, but a dozen people will swarm me if I don't mention how easy that is to build externally if you prefer crossfeed.

Sources:
Our sources included too broad an array to give individual criticism. My comments thus far are farily unscientific and it would go beyond even me to try to cricize the sources explicitly. I can only say that I was impressed that this never became an issue. Nick's thin Pioneer 440 was easy to use and worked well with the ART DI/O and Headwired's EJ01 relieved concerns I had that anything that thin must have a sucky DAC--it was actually pretty competent. I do like the ergonomics of Flumpus' 555 but ultimately I think I'm just not fond of disc changers. If I find a good deal on a 333, I'm probably all over it.

Side notes:
I sold my Sony D-25S to Headwired previously and brought it to the meeting. No one cared to hear it. I brought my Sony 7506 headphones and no one cared to hear those either. For some reason, I found both of these thoughts amusing.
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I hope we get to do this again soon. My Audio Technica W2002s have just arrived and I should have an RKV amp next month. Nick is working on a horn system that I'm dying to hear and I'd be willing to bet almost everyone buys something soon. Flumpus was probably right when he said we buy and sell too much gear to meet even semi-annually. This may have to be a quarterly event. It was nice meeting all of you.
 
Feb 18, 2002 at 5:07 PM Post #15 of 43
Texans: Why is the Melos the best? Can't you explain in more detail why the Melos is not just an object of self-induced hysteria as is so often seen at Audio Fora? To wit, a product gets a rave review, which propagates more rave reviews. Soon it becomes the absolute darling of a giant-killer for a few months only to be disgarded later as a sad footnote in audio consumerism. Say it isn't so...
 

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