Dali's Soft Magnetic Composite Driver

[musingclouds]

Unfortunately, not. I looked at the inventories of all nearby audio shops. There is a big store that I usually would go to for hard to find equipment, but even they didn't have it in stock. I wouldn't have minded taking a train 1 hour and 30 minutes to test out gear.

That sounds like a great combo! My classmates in the Graduate program at my Uni and my workplace usually uses airpods.
I haven't joined my colleagues in that combo, since I am not in the Apple ecosystem. Windows laptop, and Samsung phone.

Are you doing any traveling any time soon? I tried them out when I went to visit Thailand.

I’m surprised there’s not a shop close by. What part of town are you in?

 

[bigshot]

Look for other models. There are more fish in the sea.

 

[MiffyRabbit]

Are you doing any traveling any time soon? I tried them out when I went to visit Thailand.

I’m surprised there’s not a shop close by. What part of town are you in?

Yeah there is big store called World of Stereo and Audio Vision but they don't have it in stock.
Unfortunately, I won't be able to travel to Asia probably for another couple years.
https://audiovisionsf.com/
https://worldofstereo.com/
I live around two hours away from San Francisco. So I typically take a train there to get audio gear.

Look for other models. There are more fish in the sea.

This might be what I need to do!

 

[Bahnhof Zoo]

I’ve had the Dali for a week. (Side note…No one forced me into buying them lol). I’m a Bluetooth headphone guy that happens to love sound so the Dali, based on all reviews I’ve read, seem like the logical next step for me coming from a sennheiser momentum 4. Nothing wrong with the m4…but just assumed the Dali would be better. And when it comes to sound they are, but not by $1000 imo. The Dali are more airy and detailed with a slightly wider soundstage. The momentum is no slouch however and, to me, wasn’t far off. You could say the momentum may even be better on the low end. For build quality Dali trounces sennheiser. However for battery life sennheiser crushes it. With a non user replaceable battery that worries me. All told I’ll be keeping the momentum despite the slightly better sound on the Dali (others may say it’s more than slight…to me it’s not. They’re close). The price difference between the two isn’t worth it imo. Like I posted in the Dali thread. Had these things been 6, 7 or even 800 dollars it would be a different story. All That said…the Dali is an incredible headphone and that airy, spacious sound could very well be worth it to some. No judgement and I get it. The drivers on these things do work some magic.

 

[musingclouds]

I’ve had the Dali for a week. (Side note…No one forced me into buying them lol). I’m a Bluetooth headphone guy that happens to love sound so the Dali, based on all reviews I’ve read, seem like the logical next step for me coming from a sennheiser momentum 4. Nothing wrong with the m4…but just assumed the Dali would be better. And when it comes to sound they are, but not by $1000 imo. The Dali are more airy and detailed with a slightly wider soundstage. The momentum is no slouch however and, to me, wasn’t far off. You could say the momentum may even be better on the low end. For build quality Dali trounces sennheiser. However for battery life sennheiser crushes it. With a non user replaceable battery that worries me. All told I’ll be keeping the momentum despite the slightly better sound on the Dali (others may say it’s more than slight…to me it’s not. They’re close). The price difference between the two isn’t worth it imo. Like I posted in the Dali thread. Had these things been 6, 7 or even 800 dollars it would be a different story. All That said…the Dali is an incredible headphone and that airy, spacious sound could very well be worth it to some. No judgement and I get it. The drivers on these things do work some magic.

A thought is you could return your pair for a full refund and by a used pair on ebay. I also do think you need like at least 100 hours of burn in for these

 

[Bahnhof Zoo]

A thought is you could return your pair for a full refund and by a used pair on ebay.

For sure. I’m definitely gonna keep an eye out for a price drop on them

 

[Davesrose]

On my search for a affordable bluetooth headphone, I've noticed people on Head-Fi peer pressuring others to jump up to a $1,300 bluetooth headphone that is the best headphone ever.
I saw posts that Dali was advertising that their expensive headphone sounds just like an electrostatic headphone and with the lowest distortion in a headphone.

IMO their ad doesn't inspire a lot of confidence. The first half of the ad shows someone with a corded headphone. Then the presenter is saying they didn't know anything about headphones, and they're "trying to be unique in bringing a loudspeaker to a headphone". Well they're not the first brand to do that. I have wired Focals that have a more unique 40mm driver that are easy to drive on an iPhone (and were half the price). If I want audiophile quality on the go, I'll use them (plus they're light weight and open for me to hear ambient sound). Focal also has bluetooth headphones now.

I think their philosophy about traditional headphone manufacturers not focusing on driver is also a bit misplaced. So I have various bluetooth headphone/earphones. The current ones that I like most are Sennheiser Momentum Wireless 3 earbuds that was $900 cheaper. I think they're the best solution for on the go audio that's also hi-fi. They're pretty rugged, so I will use them for working out. No one is going to argue that Sennheiser doesn't know how to make headphone drivers. But what makes their series better for bluetooth is that the system doesn't just rely on transducers. Being a larger company, Sennheiser has also spent the resources in developing a good app (either iOS or Android). What makes it more powerful is a good EQ system, as well as other DSPs for whether you need sound isolation or need to be able to hear ambient noise.

 

[MiffyRabbit]

I’ve had the Dali for a week. (Side note…No one forced me into buying them lol). I’m a Bluetooth headphone guy that happens to love sound so the Dali, based on all reviews I’ve read, seem like the logical next step for me coming from a sennheiser momentum 4. Nothing wrong with the m4…but just assumed the Dali would be better. And when it comes to sound they are, but not by $1000 imo. The Dali are more airy and detailed with a slightly wider soundstage. The momentum is no slouch however and, to me, wasn’t far off. You could say the momentum may even be better on the low end. For build quality Dali trounces sennheiser. However for battery life sennheiser crushes it. With a non user replaceable battery that worries me. All told I’ll be keeping the momentum despite the slightly better sound on the Dali (others may say it’s more than slight…to me it’s not. They’re close). The price difference between the two isn’t worth it imo. Like I posted in the Dali thread. Had these things been 6, 7 or even 800 dollars it would be a different story. All That said…the Dali is an incredible headphone and that airy, spacious sound could very well be worth it to some. No judgement and I get it. The drivers on these things do work some magic.

Hey greatly appreciate your thoughts on here as with the others who posted. Between Momentum 4 and Dali IO-12 if you had to fly on an airplane, take a 3-6 hour train ride, which would you pick?
I took a look at the carrying case for both, and the Dali's look much bigger, would this case fit in something like a backpack (15-16 inch) (30L) or a messenger bag?

A thought is you could return your pair for a full refund and by a used pair on ebay. I also do think you need like at least 100 hours of burn in for these

Ebay does have a good policy from what I've seen, "If the buyer receives the wrong item, or the item arrives broken, damaged, or faulty (and was not clearly described as such), they are entitled to return it for a refund, even if the seller doesn't offer returns."
Though one downside but doing so, Dali may or may not provide warranty support unless the original owner. I have not contacted them about it, but might be something to think about.

IMO their ad doesn't inspire a lot of confidence. The first half of the ad shows someone with a corded headphone. Then the presenter is saying they didn't know anything about headphones, and they're "trying to be unique in bringing a loudspeaker to a headphone". Well they're not the first brand to do that. I have wired Focals that have a more unique 40mm driver that are easy to drive on an iPhone (and were half the price). If I want audiophile quality on the go, I'll use them (plus they're light weight and open for me to hear ambient sound). Focal also has bluetooth headphones now.

I think their philosophy about traditional headphone manufacturers not focusing on driver is also a bit misplaced. So I have various bluetooth headphone/earphones. The current ones that I like most are Sennheiser Momentum Wireless 3 earbuds that was $900 cheaper. I think they're the best solution for on the go audio that's also hi-fi. They're pretty rugged, so I will use them for working out. No one is going to argue that Sennheiser doesn't know how to make headphone drivers. But what makes their series better for bluetooth is that the system doesn't just rely on transducers. Being a larger company, Sennheiser has also spent the resources in developing a good app (either iOS or Android). What makes it more powerful is a good EQ system, as well as other DSPs for whether you need sound isolation or need to be able to hear ambient noise.

Thank you for sharing your thoughts, as well as your recommendations!
I checked out the Momentum Wireless 3, the build quality actually looks very nice, they use sheepskin leather, but it also folds! The Momentum 4 does have 60 hours of battery life and forgoes the build quality of the wireless 3. The Focal Bathys case also looks in line with Momentum 4.
From what I've seen the Dali's are also much larger than the other headphones listed in this thread here so far, headphone size and carrying case.

Also I wanted to shout out everyone here for your posts and recommendations, so far I cannot thank you all enough.

 

[Davesrose]

Thank you for sharing your thoughts, as well as your recommendations!
I checked out the Momentum Wireless 3, the build quality actually looks very nice, they use sheepskin leather, but it also folds! The Momentum 4 does have 60 hours of battery life and forgoes the build quality of the wireless 3. The Focal Bathys case also looks in line with Momentum 4.
From what I've seen the Dali's are also much larger than the other headphones listed in this thread here so far, headphone size and carrying case.

I actually was referring to the wireless earbuds (the battery life is really good since you also get a battery in the case). IMO, they're the best price point for what bluetooth should be: your earphones that have the best audio quality you can hear on the go, and is also practical enough to use with workouts.

If you're looking for full sized headphones to take on the go: I think the first half of that ad says it all: they showed a guy listening on his phone with a wired connection. If you're looking for the best sound quality you can get easy to drive wired Focal headphones that are half the price of the Dalis. Focals are also 40mm, and they utilize special alloys. I've got a collection of corded headphones: all I listen to while being at home or office. If there was one full sized "audiophile" headphone I'd take with my iPhone, it would be the Focal with iPhone audio dongle (because my corded Focal is so easy to drive).

 

[KinGensai]

I'm looking at Dali's internal measurements of the THD between their DD and an unnamed competitor (that's definitely legal CYA) and it's technically lower, but it's all below 0.1% 3rd order harmonic distortion (.... an odd choice vs THD, DDs all exhibit typically a lower ratio of odd to even order harmonics).

I found this elsewhere on head-fi, and this is more telling. Even mud across the whole spectrum totalling over 1% distortion is not ideal even for single DD designs, and this is not noteworthy over sennheiser's or beyerdynamic's offerings, let alone planar magnetic options from Audeze or Meze and nowhere near the incredible performance of Stax and Sennheiser electrostatics (those are closer to 0.1% THD across the spectrum). I wouldn't pay $1.3k for these.

This is of course just my opinion. I'm more experienced with IEMs at this point (I stopped buying HPs after getting a DT 1990 pro years ago), so if IEMs are an open option for you I can offer my opinion. If not, someone else might have input that can be helpful on the current portable HP market.

However, I will say one thing. I highly suggest you acquire a 7Hz x Crinacle Zero 2 to use as a reference for what clean distortion-free audio sounds like. It's honestly ridiculous that 7Hz managed to release such a reference quality audio product for under $25. While it's not the pinnacle of IEM performance due to the physical limitations of single driver designs, it does a damn good job of rendering clean audio.

https://www.audiosciencereview.com/forum/index.php?threads/7hz-x-crinacle-zero-2-iem-review.50534/

You can even turn these into a BT option using Fiio's BT adapters.

 

[MiffyRabbit]

I actually was referring to the wireless earbuds (the battery life is really good since you also get a battery in the case). IMO, they're the best price point for what bluetooth should be: your earphones that have the best audio quality you can hear on the go, and is also practical enough to use with workouts.

If you're looking for full sized headphones to take on the go: I think the first half of that ad says it all: they showed a guy listening on his phone with a wired connection. If you're looking for the best sound quality you can get easy to drive wired Focal headphones that are half the price of the Dalis. Focals are also 40mm, and they utilize special alloys. I've got a collection of corded headphones: all I listen to while being at home or office. If there was one full sized "audiophile" headphone I'd take with my iPhone, it would be the Focal with iPhone audio dongle (because my corded Focal is so easy to drive).

Oh my mistake, you meant the Momentum 3 true wireless earbuds! I am actually pretty open to either Earbuds or Bluetooth headphone. I have a Sennheiser HD600 for home listening, but I am usually not home. For the next two years, I might be commuting a lot, moving after graduation, working after class, etc. Once my life settles down I think the HD600 will see more listening time.

I'm looking at Dali's internal measurements of the THD between their DD and an unnamed competitor (that's definitely legal CYA) and it's technically lower, but it's all below 0.1% 3rd order harmonic distortion (.... an odd choice vs THD, DDs all exhibit typically a lower ratio of odd to even order harmonics).
I found this elsewhere on head-fi, and this is more telling. Even mud across the whole spectrum totalling over 1% distortion is not ideal even for single DD designs, and this is not noteworthy over sennheiser's or beyerdynamic's offerings, let alone planar magnetic options from Audeze or Meze and nowhere near the incredible performance of Stax and Sennheiser electrostatics (those are closer to 0.1% THD across the spectrum). I wouldn't pay $1.3k for these.

This is of course just my opinion. I'm more experienced with IEMs at this point (I stopped buying HPs after getting a DT 1990 pro years ago), so if IEMs are an open option for you I can offer my opinion. If not, someone else might have input that can be helpful on the current portable HP market.

However, I will say one thing. I highly suggest you acquire a 7Hz x Crinacle Zero 2 to use as a reference for what clean distortion-free audio sounds like. It's honestly ridiculous that 7Hz managed to release such a reference quality audio product for under $25. While it's not the pinnacle of IEM performance due to the physical limitations of single driver designs, it does a damn good job of rendering clean audio.

https://www.audiosciencereview.com/forum/index.php?threads/7hz-x-crinacle-zero-2-iem-review.50534/

You can even turn these into a BT option using Fiio's BT adapters.

Thank you KinGensai for showing me this. I hope someday a local audio shop near me would have a Dali for demo listening.
Also looking at that would you say that distortion would be audible?
KinGensai I am open to IEMs btw. I have a BTR 7 that can hook up IEMs by a 3.5mm jack to a bluetooth signal to my phone!
Funny, you mention! I obtained a Fiio BTR 7 a while back and it's been very handy.

From 7hz I made a list so far:
7Hz x Crinacle Zero 2
7Hz Timeless
7Hz Eternal (This one looks pretty premium)
7Hz x Crinacle Dioko

 

[KinGensai]

@MiffyRabbit
https://www.klippel.de/listeningtest/
https://www.audiocheck.net/blindtests_index.php
See if it matters to you. Pure sine waves make detecting THD easier, as do odd order harmonic heavy profiles. 1% THD is too much for me, I need 0.5% and lower to not notice it, but you might be different.

The others from 7Hz are ok, they are budget and the planar magnetics suffer from timbral issues in the treble IMO, but the Zero 2 is exceptional in their line-up. These things almost match the capabilities of the Kiwi ears orchestra lite, an IEM with 8 BAs at 10x the price, and they manage to measure better in distortion. Hell, for simple songs, they manage to sound just as clean as my Anole V14, a fact that is rather incredible as an indictment of how much price bloating is happening in the industry whether intentionally or not. The V14 is no simple IEM so I get the expertise and R&D that goes into making them requires just compensation, but is this level of complication necessary if a single DD IEM like the Zero 2 can get this close in performance? The Zero 2 reframed my conception of the market at this point.

 

[MiffyRabbit]

@MiffyRabbit
https://www.klippel.de/listeningtest/
https://www.audiocheck.net/blindtests_index.php
See if it matters to you. Pure sine waves make detecting THD easier, as do odd order harmonic heavy profiles. 1% THD is too much for me, I need 0.5% and lower to not notice it, but you might be different.

The others from 7Hz are ok, they are budget and the planar magnetics suffer from timbral issues in the treble IMO, but the Zero 2 is exceptional in their line-up. These things almost match the capabilities of the Kiwi ears orchestra lite, an IEM with 8 BAs at 10x the price, and they manage to measure better in distortion. Hell, for simple songs, they manage to sound just as clean as my Anole V14, a fact that is rather incredible as an indictment of how much price bloating is happening in the industry whether intentionally or not. The V14 is no simple IEM so I get the expertise and R&D that goes into making them requires just compensation, but is this level of complication necessary if a single DD IEM like the Zero 2 can get this close in performance? The Zero 2 reframed my conception of the market at this point.

Thank you for those tools.
Whoa I checked the Kiwi Ears Orchestra lite and they are $249, Zero 2 must be really good value.

What I can do is start off from Zero 2 and see how it goes from there, $25 is not a bad starting point actually.
Much appreciated!

 

[musingclouds]

If we're going to go to the topic of Best Bluetooh Headphone irregardless of price, it's going to be the Dalis or the Solitaire T, with the ML 5909 and Focal Bathys right behind there.

If we're going into IEM territory it's a whole other can of things.

 

[gregorio]

If we're going to go to the topic of Best Bluetooh Headphone irregardless of price, it's going to be the Dalis or the Solitaire T, with the ML 5909 and Focal Bathys right behind there.

Any reason not to recommend any headphones of choice with a Bluetooth adapter/receiver?

G